S2 E35: Expect the Unexpected: Harley Whittaker on Training OTTBs for Dressage, Rider Fitness & the Road to Kentucky | RRP Trainer Chronicles

S2 E35: Expect the Unexpected: Harley Whittaker on Training OTTBs for Dressage, Rider Fitness & the Road to Kentucky | RRP Trainer Chronicles [Transcript] [00:00:00] hi everyone and welcome back to OTTB on Tap.
I'm Nev. And I'm Emily. Hey, nev. What's on tap today? Today we're catching up with one of our RRP trainer Chronicle Riders, Harley Whitaker of HW Dressage. In her first episode, we got to know Harley's background, her love for thoroughbreds and her training philosophy, and today we're checking back in on her OTTB Juanito, better known as Jack, and seeing how their journey to the 2025 RRP makeover is shaping up.
We will also talk about what's new with Harley's business, one of her favorite training tips for green horses, and even dive into a personal pa, her personal passion for fitness. So Harley, welcome back. We've got a lot to talk about today. Hey guys, it's great to catch up with you again. Thanks so much for having me.
Yeah, absolutely. Especially when our time is limited. Finding a free 45 minutes is really tough sometimes. I feel like you're foregoing dinner or a shower right now. And we really appreciate you so much. [00:01:00] Thanks. Before we dive back into Jack, how's the summer been so far? And have you had a chance to do anything fun outside of the barn?
Summer has been very busy. I'm still working on finding that balance people talk about. Maybe one day I'll find it, but we'll get there. I did sneak away for three days to go to the beach with my husband, which was great. Nice. Oh, that's good. That feels like a rare tree after being on a horse farm.
Yeah. Yeah. So what's a typical day at HW dressage looking like these days? Has your routine changed much since we last talked? My routine's very similar to the last time we talked. Usually I'm just riding all day and teaching probably from 8:00 AM till 2:00 PM I'm either on a horse or teaching someone on a horse.
Wow. How many horses do you have at your farm? You probably told us last time, but I can't remember. So it's usually about eight to 10. Okay. I have a [00:02:00] couple that Okay. Like for week boot camps here and there, so Sure. That's a really nice size. I feel like you can still offer that kind of personalized Yeah.
Like boutique feeling. Yeah. Versus the larger. Operations get a little crazy. Yes, I agree. We're officially wait inside the one year countdown to the makeover. Oh, I meant 1,000,001 month. I meant to fix this month. One month. Wouldn't it be great if it was a year one? Oh God, that would just be throw you guys off.
But it's Honcho, not Juan Show. Oh shoot. That's because of married at first sight. I know. Why did I think it was Juano? Oh my God. I'm sorry. It's very And it's Jack. 'cause you have a Jack and a Jacks. Yes. Okay. Hold on. Juanito. I don't know if, sorry guys. Emily's like out to lunch. Hold on one second.
Okay. All right. Juanito, not whatever I known [00:03:00] before. That's a cute name too. Wait, it's Wacho, not Juanito. Wacho.
Oh, it is Wacho. Why did I write? I erased it and wrote Juanito again. See, I really wanted it to be Juanito. Wacho. Is that right? J-U-A-N-C-H-O. Yeah. Yes, it's fine. I'm fired. I'm fired. Guys, I feel like we're all running a little thread bear, so that's okay. Little bit. Yes, a little bit. I've had a day, so birds are hard.
All right, so we are officially inside the one month countdown to the makeover. How does that feel? Exciting. Nerve wracking, maybe a little bit of both. Terrifying. In your own words, Harley? No, I think your words were very good. I, it is a little bit of both. I definitely am way more nervous now than I was the last time we talked.
Yeah. Yeah, it's getting [00:04:00] close and I'm feeling the pressure, I can't remember if we talked about this in our previous episode, but do you, are you the type of person who gets show nerves or do you feel like, okay, I've prepared for this feels within my, the scope of my ability and my practice?
Or do you tend to just get nervous 'cause it's, you're just somebody who gets nervous at a competitions? I think I'm definitely not a nervous show. Yeah. I used to be, but I think I have gotten over that. I have a healthy dose of wanting to do well. But I don't generally get really nervous about.
All right. Sorry, I'm just officially changing Juanito to Wacho. Let's get back to Juano or Jack. How has he been doing since we last talked? What kind of progress have you seen in him kind of day to day? He's doing really well. I've had a lot of fun with him so far. And he's definitely showing more of his personality and I'm getting to know him a little better now that he feels good and has more of a routine.
And [00:05:00] I've learned a lot more about him as far as how he is off property, which we'll get into. But overall, he's doing well and I've had a really good time with him. That's awesome. When you say that you've seen, he sounds a little bit like the progress that I've made with Oscar, where he took a little while to come out of his shell, but what are some of the personality traits that you're seeing now that you didn't see initially?
So at first, like grooming wise, just, typical thin skin, thoroughbred didn't enjoy being groomed and touched really? And was very like, on top of me, but didn't really understand personal space. Yeah. And I felt like you, I couldn't really connect with him personally yet. But now, like I, I know what he likes grooming wise, where he likes to be groomed and he's really calmed down a bit.
As far as that goes. He's way more relaxed. He enjoys, being around me and wants attention. Yeah. So those sorts of things, he's definitely [00:06:00] shown a lot more of. Yeah. It's nice when that happens. I feel like it makes you feel like you're turning a corner. Like they, they're not just looking at you like, oh, here she comes with the saddle again.
Oh yeah. So he has had the chance to go to his first dressage show, is that correct? And how did he handle everything? Like trailering and the warm up ring and just being on at a show? Yes. He went to his first show. Oh. Did he compete at his first show? No. So I had a couple other horses going to the done move in at Devon Show.
Okay. Which is a very big atmosphere. Yeah. I did that a couple years ago. It's it's such a nice atmosphere, but it's it is big. It is big. And it was gonna, I was gonna take them on, I did take them on Friday evening. The plan was to school them there. Yeah. And then and so I took him and he.
Leading up to this I had learned this about him, is that off property has been pretty scary for [00:07:00] him. And so we went and he was just beside himself and it was either, I tried to get on him and just make him work through it, which was not going to be very pretty or I could take my time and while I'm there, and I have two other courses there, like in between, just take him out as many times as I can. And it not be a big deal. And so that ended up being a good thing for him. Obviously I was disappointed that I couldn't do the test. Yeah. But I think in the long run it was better for me to just take my time and bring 'em out a bunch and let 'em see the warmup and let 'em see all the things that are happening.
And, I learned that he's actually great in his stall. He was, oh, that's good. Very, relaxed and quiet in his stall. And I also gave him every calming thing you can think of the amount of perfect prep and like calming cookies and all the things I tried and he was not calm. And then I came home and I was like, he's gonna be so wild to get turned out.
And we came home and like the [00:08:00] next day he was like, I'm so calm going out to my field. I was like, oh, so now it won't, that's so rude. I was like, okay, you just have to give it like, 24 hours in full day in advance. He had it the night before. Oh my gosh. And before, yeah. The, I think though, like it's hard to explain.
What Devon is like if you've never been there, first of all, I think there's horse ghosts that live there. It's like hallowed ground. It's such a special environment, and it's literally like a block. It's like a city block. Like it's not, and it's right in the middle of a, like a town, like a, and then everything is on top of everything else, so you've got, people over there doing third level and you've got PE people lunging next to people that are just trying to have a quiet warmup. You've got babies. It's a lot. The water coming in every five seconds next to the drag and they're [00:09:00] flying around while you're Yeah.
Yeah. The, yeah, the watering guys like, and they're just running on autopilot they're like, whatever. But yeah it's not to be that's a tough atmosphere for sure. But I think you did the right thing because like you said, you could've maybe gotten on him and, but made it like a hard, uncomfortable thing for him and it's really good when you can just already secure.
So why make it a bad experience? Yeah. And it's really, not for nothing. Like it's going and staying in a new place and with a bunch of strange horses and a lot going on. And I think that is valuable experience for sure. Yeah. Especially for something like the Makeover where, it's not unlike a larger Devon, I mean there's more room Yeah.
In between things. Yeah. It's a lot of pavement and I guess the stabling is not temporary, but it's not like horses live there all year round. Yeah. It's also a very like impressive property. [00:10:00] So I think that, it sounds like hopefully, and we'll get more into it probably, but by not blowing his mind, by forcing him to go in and do the tests, it hopefully set him up for some good success in the future.
Yeah, I'm hoping so. So were you surprised about how he reacted? Or was there anything leading up to it? Only because of the, which we'll talk about, but because of our experiences off property before that, I knew in my, the back of my head that was a real possibility that I would take him and not show him.
Okay. But again, it was valuable regardless for him to go and get out as much as possible and see that. So I did have that in the back of my head and I didn't want to put that type of pressure on him for it to make things worse. Yeah. So where had you taken him before? So he'd been off property, but not to a show previous.
So I think last time we talked, I had told you I was waiting, I was taking my time on getting him off property because he went from, I was [00:11:00] in South Carolina when I got him. That's that's right. So he came from New York to South Carolina. He had to, settle in there, which he did quite well with.
And then after the winter we came back to Pennsylvania. So he went from South Carolina to Pennsylvania and he also did pretty well settling in there. So I thought he's gonna be okay. And I, that's my fault for thinking that he was gonna be just fine because I was like, oh, we can just take him over to Robin Indoor, who's right, right over the hill from me.
Yeah. Yeah. And real quiet and everything's good. He's been in indoors before, so I took him and he like melt down, was. I was like, okay, we forgot to lead. Okay. We can't walk up poles. Wow. And poles are definitely never seen those before. Wow. And just screaming and just and then the more I thought about it after that first time, I was really shocked.
'cause this horse at home [00:12:00] is he is just, he is the same horse every day. He does nothing bothers him. Like he's a really good egg. And I expected him to have some, trouble but nothing like that. And when I was thinking about it though, and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong 'cause I haven't had a ton of experience with right off the track thoroughbreds.
Sure. But when I was thinking about it from his perspective at the track, they go with two people on either side of 'em, single file to the track, then they get the buddy horse and like they're constantly like right on top of each other. And then, here. Like he had to go somewhere by himself. And I don't think he could see other horses.
And so I think for him, that was where his insecurity came out. 'cause he was like, had to be by himself, like independent at home. He can see other horses no matter where we're at. Yeah. And so that was something I was like I think this is actually the root issue here. He needs to learn how to be a little bit independent and that it's a so we did a couple field trips to that same indoor, which were, it [00:13:00] was pretty rough a couple of times. And eventually I got that was, I didn't get on him like probably three times. Wow. Yeah. That I took, or three times. Wow. And some of that was that I just didn't have , a lot of time to stay there.
As long as he probably would've needed, I think he would've gotten over it, but he needed a lot of time. And so I just got to the point where we ended on a good note and then we'd come. And then eventually I got to where I could get on him and then we worked through that. But never quite completely settled there.
We went to a different place in a different indoor, but there were horses in the arena and that actually went fairly well. He was still very up, but I was able to get on him and just go to work real quick. Yeah. And that was good. And I made that a quick All right. Walk track, canner each way.
Great. You did great. Let's go. Yeah. And so that was good. And then I also took him to a different place a couple weeks ago. And also [00:14:00] after that I started doing a little more of the groundwork with him because, he. Whenever he's like straight on, he just gets real stiff and stuck in his body.
And so I was like, okay, we need to take a couple steps back. I need to work on groundwork and just getting him to yield in his barrel a little bit and get him to soften up so that I have better tools when we go places and he's not quite ready for getting right on. And so I went back to the basics a little bit and then the next time I took him somewhere, it actually did help.
He still really struggles off property, but I do feel like each time it gets a little bit better. And so leading up to that show I knew that it was gonna be a lot for him. But still I was able to get on him and do a little bit. It was tricky, but I was able to do that. So from there we, we've just been trying to make keep adding like little, yeah. Little good experiences investing [00:15:00] into it. One of the things that Chelsea mentioned I think in the last episode we recorded with her was that one of the years that she was at the makeover, she had a horse that like when she got there and the horse was like, I can't go anywhere by myself.
This is really terrifying. And she literally. Found somebody who was stable next to her with a really calm horse and said, can I just buddy up with you for the first couple of rides? 'cause I just need a buddy. And so she was able to connect with somebody that had a, horse with all of its feet on the ground.
And she just like first couple rides just went out for a little morning walk with them and it really helped. So hopefully you'll be surrounded by some good people that, can be a resource in that way for you. 'cause it sounds like he gets a lot of confidence from being around other horses.
Yeah, I do. I do think that, I've thought about that as well. I do think that I'm gonna try to do that. And the one good thing is I am getting there on Monday. Yeah. And I don't know which day is actually the start of I don't know which day. Yeah. I think you can ride in school on Tuesday and then Wednesday is the first day of competition.[00:16:00]
Okay. Because I think getting there early and then just being able to get 'em out as much as possible before that is gonna help. Yeah. Even if that means I feel like, 'cause I'm trying to get there on Monday too. I think our shipper is planning to get there like midday Monday and I'm like, if I have to hand walk him all over every inch of that property for the first 24 hours, I'll do that.
Absolutely. Yeah. No, I'm on that. I'm on that same, absolutely. Yeah. I mean it's interesting the insight about them not really ever being alone, and and that's, I've actually, I've seen, I don't actually know that. Yeah, you can create, that's fairly true. They're always out with the company for the most part.
Yeah. They might, depending on where their stabling is from the track, like they might go from the barn to the track on their own. But not always. Yeah. And it's something, so I have a young home bread that actually is a little bit similar. She did not race what she did, [00:17:00] but she has problems being alone too.
And I think it's just something she never experienced. She was born on a farm, raised with all of her little buddies and then trying to then take her like out in a big giant field by herself. Just, she was like, what? What is, yeah. She didn't have the coping mechanisms. Can't do that to deal with it.
No, I, she just never had to deal with it. She moved from the big field with all the babies and then she went into a a good sized paddock, but with two other mares and that was her life. And then trying to start training with her. Then it's okay, let's start, even leading her into a field all by herself or whatever, on a trail or something like that is challenging.
While maybe not necessarily race horse specific, but I do think it's comparable. Whereby they've never been asked to be all alone and they're herd animals. Yeah. So it's a real thing to overcome. Yeah. With some of them it has, some of 'em don't care. Is he the one show that he's four years old?
Five years old? He's five, yeah. Okay. I just wanted to look at his and so this me result, [00:18:00] if this, what people were talking about with the storm cat thing. 'cause everyone's oh, you'll love him or hate him. I'm like I have to say I was just, I wanted to look up his breeding just 'cause I wanted to jog my memory, but I was like, let me just look at his results because that might tell me something as well.
And he only ever shipped at one track, which is a little bit telling. I actually have kind of the opposite issue with Oscar in that he shipped. And raced all over the place. So the first couple times I put him on a trailer, he was like, we are racing. And I, we'd get somewhere and I was like, no, we're not dude.
And also doesn't love being around a lot of other horses, but, so I think there is a little bit that you could say okay, maybe he just, he only knew this track, this, and so that could impact him for sure. Yeah, I had one that raced 52 times, but only at one track. Yeah. Oh my.
And she wouldn't even get on a trailer. Wow. My goodness. Yeah, it is interesting. Anyway, because at home though, like he doesn't, I don't have to ride him with other horses. Yeah. He can see horses. But he's good about hacking around the [00:19:00] fields by himself. He's he's pretty independent at home.
Yeah. But at home. Interesting. So I was still shocked by that and, yeah, I don't, it was interesting. Yeah. But they keep us on their toes. Yes. On our toes. They really do. None of it made me feel like, like I know for a fact he'll get through that and looking at 5-year-old, this horse just needs time and mileage. He'll be fine. But when you look at it from okay, we have the RRP in a couple weeks, I'm like, that's a little more like where, but as looking at him as just a young horse, it's nothing at all that I'm worried about. Yeah.
Yeah. No, that's just mileage, right? Yeah. And I think that's the thing, like I think Chelsea said in her last episode as well, where she was just talking about how, if we can remember that this is like one hurdle in the beginning stages of the rest of their lives. And putting that into perspective I think does take a little bit of that.
Pressure off. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, and he loads great. He gets on a trailer like no [00:20:00] problem. Yeah. Trailers very well. Yeah. But I I took Oscar over to ura, over to Boyd's for his first jumping experience and he came off the trailer, a completely different horse. So I think he just got there and he was like, I'm surrounded by greatness.
Let me show you how good I am. So maybe it had the same effect. He is I met Devin guys. Yeah. He is you getting a different one today. Speaking of the makeover and scheduling and everything, you are definitely doing or hoping to do dressage. Are you thinking about adding another discipline or did you add another discipline?
No. I'm gonna stick with what I know. Yeah. And I think if it wasn't my first time going, I would think about a different discipline, but just because I don't know what to expect, really. I feel like I should just keep it real simple. Yeah. Especially with him now, obviously I have one mission when I go and that's to hopefully do do our dressage test and do well and keep him relaxed.
And [00:21:00] that's really my only goal. Yeah. Good. And I think, it sounds like from the emails that I just received about scheduling, that they will be fairly accommodating about certain schedules. So maybe they would, if you felt like a pre ride would be good for him, maybe you could ask to not be first thing in the morning.
Yeah, no, I think that would be great. The last time I went, I shipped with somebody else and they, however it worked out, we didn't get there until the night before the competition started, and I was the very first dressage ride in the morning. And my horse, we took them, there's there's a coliseum like indoor, and I took them in there that night after we arrived and they were barrel racing in there and that was the only place to ride.
Oh my God. It was dark and I feel like someone had a boombox with like staticky music or something. Maybe. There was just like, really? And it turns out that horse was very. He ended up becoming an [00:22:00] upper level dressage horse, but he always had a problem with loudspeakers and like the static Oh no.
And that was going on. So I got on him and I very quickly got off and I was like, I'm just gonna get very early tomorrow and do lots of lunging. Yeah. Yeah, some like that can definitely happen, but it's awesome that they're maybe letting you dictate schedule or, help out with scheduling.
I think they're trying to accommodate as much, especially in situations like that where it's just I just really feel like this isn in the best interest. It seems like there's been a bit of a shift. Towards the management of the horses, more so about the people that are gonna be there.
It really feels like the horse management and husbandry has really been put to the forefront for a lot of reasons, it's a safety. Yeah, for sure. And I know a lot of people get there and have to scratch from, their second discipline or, whatever. So yeah. If you were gonna consider, is there any discipline offered that you are maybe interested in that's like outside of your [00:23:00] wheelhouse that you might wanna check out while you're down there?
Yeah, I think I would try the trail class. Maybe I would, I say this, but maybe I would try jumping just for fun, but I think those would probably be the. First two that would catch my attention. Yeah. Gotcha. Actually, Emily Harley and I were just talking before you joined the call that we might meet up at Hidden Acres on Sunday morning.
Oh, fun. That would be awesome. Yeah, Emily her trainer just brought her young horse over there for the first time for her first like big off property excursion and it was really fun. Yeah, it's a great place. Did that I did on my page, I think I saw it. Yeah. With her horse, Yeah, it was like crying in the water like, like very dramatically Hannah was on.
Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. That's great. So yeah, let me know if you wanna meet up. Are you sure you still wanna go now that you know how he's Oh my god, no. So [00:24:00] it's so funny 'cause I went with a girl last time who, she hadn't really taken her horse off off property at all, and had never done anything like that.
So I think she was quite nervous and her horse was actually really good. But when I went there for the clinic, Oscar was probably one of the greener horses that was there, but the other horses were a lot more animated and he, knock on wood, doesn't tend to get amped up by that. Oh, that's good.
Yeah. Yeah. So he could be a good buddy. Absolutely. Now I feel like he'd be a good for that for sure. Who knows since he's like a big cross country star now after his trip to URA and he's taught shit. But up until now, I think he's been a very steady Eddy. Even, I know I'm like, let me put the western saddle on you again and remember where you started.
Let's humble you a little bit. , Maybe the jump saddle's not a good idea. They do learn that. I know after a while, like from venting, they definitely knew which saddle they had on and what day it was. Oh, I believe. Amazing. Yeah. The big [00:25:00] question that people always wonder is if Jack is gonna be for sale or adoption after the makeover, and what kind of home do you think would be the best fit for him if he is for sale?
Yeah. Sadly, he will be as sad as I am to say that was the whole. Point of us getting him was he was going to sale. And it was like last minute thought, a couple days before the increase closed or whatever for the RRPI was like, oh, it'll be fun to do that. And then here I am.
But yeah, so he will be for sale. I think he'd be best in a home with a regular routine. He really thrives on his routine and someone who will just dote on him. I think he needs that attention. He likes that. Yeah. Do you think that he'd work out for an amateur rider or more for a pro?
I think absolutely. He's very AA friendly. I think he'd prefer a quieter rider. Okay. But he can take coke. He's very honest and dependable at home, and I think obviously he needs someone who's [00:26:00] gonna be able to. Help him with his confidence off property and get some mileage on him. But he's not at all.
He's never knock on wood, he's never tried to buck or rear or anything naughty. Yeah. Just a very honest horse and he's fun and I think I think he would, he's gonna be that super steady Eddie horse for somebody. It might be the kind of thing if you've got like a good adult amateur that's got a nice pro that and you know that they're working with that likes thoroughbreds and can do, maybe a couple training rides here and there and keep the horse polished and everything.
Exactly. Might be perfect. Absolutely. So let's shift gears a little bit. What has been going on with your business HW Dressage? You're in Kirkwood, Pennsylvania, which is not too far from us. Any updates or exciting things happen since we spoke last? I think you guys have gathered that it's I'm really boring.
And every day is Groundhogs Day. So we Didn't you get a new horse though? What about Isn't the gray [00:27:00] horse new? I did get a new horse, which was unexpected. I had a client that had life change circumstances and I, she gave me the horse, which is amazing. Wow. Because the horses, she's awesome and she is special, but she is not one that just anybody could probably take on because she's super sensitive.
And I got along with her really well, and it just one of those weird things that fell into place. So it was like a welcome surprise. Yeah. So I have been having fun with her and that is definitely a big new thing that's happened. Otherwise I feel like a big old podcaster these days with you.
I was on JJ Tate's podcast, which was also really fun. Nice. And yeah. So that's all that's new with me. And then have you expanded into any of other areas of training or added any new clients to your program? I have the same group of clients, but Jack has definitely added some new training [00:28:00] thoughts and tools in my repertoire.
I keep saying this over and over again on the podcast, but having a bit of a quirky horse has completely changed my philosophy in working with horses. And it was really cool to be em. Emily came to one door, she nipped out on her lunch break and was able to come over and watch Oscar go, and she goes, man, I really think all that obstacle work.
Really gets them in this thinking of their job is to go from one side of something to the other and they have to figure it out with their eyes and their feet. And I think it was cool for her to see all the little pieces come together and for me too, to be like.
He'd never really jumped anything before and went from like little tiny baby log to like beginner novice in an hour. And I'm like, Ugh. But I think like you, when you have one that doesn't necessarily fit like your usual kind of foundational program, and I'm sure you think this way too, but it's really fun to change your thinking a little bit or try something [00:29:00] new or, learn a new skill work with a different trainer.
I don't know. I kinda love it. Yeah. It gets you thinking outside the box, but it also, critical thinking, we can't, it's not one size fit fits all for every horse, right? Yeah. So I think it's good to have that and to continue to think differently and think about what works for that horse and, just keep adding tools to the tool belt. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause it's nice when you are then in a high pressure situation, you go, okay, this isn't working. What else do I have that I can use as a resource and fall back on? Or maybe just try to get 'em thinking in a little bit of a different way or a quieter way.
So what type of horses are you most excited to be working with right now? Keep in mind Brendan OTB podcast. I'm just kidding. But Green OTBs, young Warmbloods, more experienced horses? Or is it a mix? Big, fancy, warm bloods only. It's really not about what type of horse it is. [00:30:00] I'm just most excited to work with horses that wanna learn and enjoy their Yeah.
Even ones that maybe don't and just need to. I enjoy teaching a horse how to enjoy their work too. Yeah. So it's not really breed specific. A good horse is a good horse. That's why I like thoroughbred so much. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that makes so much sense. And it's why, I think you're such a great ambassador because, coming from that dressage background and saying, no, they don't have to be the fanciest horse.
They just want need to, want to learn. Have a good work ethic. And I think that's awesome. Now I'm plotting in the back of my brain about how to get Oscar over to Harley after the makeover. I know. I want Harley to ride Oscar now and see. Come on over, really excuse some buttons.
He learned what his big trot was a couple weeks ago, and he is look what I can do. And I'm like, oh my God, no, he is got a lot more in there for sure. And then I'm just puttering around and I'm dressing him up like a clown. It's fine. But he [00:31:00] tolerates it all. We were literally throwing a big giant plush football over him yesterday to get him ready for his freestyle and he's just grazing.
He was like, whatever. He's do whatever you want. What other weird stuff is my mom gonna do? He was like, have you seen this one? She's got a lot of cookies, but man, is she weird? No. Never know what you're gonna get with this one. No. I just started like unpacking stuff and he is just okay.
Are you guys planning on hosting any clinics or any special events at your farm this year? The show season's kind of come into a close and as it gets colder, I come into my winter show. So you're packing the trailer for ing? Yeah. I'm like, okay, it's full of 60 degrees. I'm cold. I hear you.
Oh man, that's my time to shine shine. No, I want it like hot and he it all day. But there is potentially a cl clinic getting put together this winter in Aiken, which will be [00:32:00] fun. But right now everything's settling down after the RRP and then showing, we'll start up again in January.
So when do you head south? Usually January 1st. Okay. Right around there. Yeah. Gotcha. We're gonna move on to our next segment, which is. All about training, philosophy and tips. So you work with a wide range of horses, like we just discussed, from OTBs to warm bloods. And what's one training tip that you find especially effective with green horses and especially maybe for thoroughbreds?
Once again, it's not one size fits all. So I think it's just learn the horse and be patient and make sure that everything that you are communicating to them is black and white. And I think if you do that and you have consistency then they'll blossom. Yeah, the woman that I did a clinic with over at Hidden Acres Emily Greenfield, said reward the slightest try.
And that keeps echoing in the back of my mind. 'cause I think [00:33:00] sometimes it's easy to get a little frustrated, when you're like, I thought we were consistent in this. And then you're like, you gotta just keep remembering to being so mindful of rewarding when they're just really trying to figure out what you're asking them.
'cause they don't really know when they're green. And finding those opportunities to say yes. Yeah, absolutely. Positive reinforcement is huge for communicating to them that's what you want. Yeah. So can you walk us through a little bit, like real life example, how you apply your your tip here about learning the horse and being patient in a real ride.
What's the first step and how do you know when it's working? Yeah. I can give you two examples. I have two youngsters in the barn, complete opposites. One is. The thoroughbred. So he's a bay gelding thoroughbred, and you can't get more opposite than a warm blood chestnut mare. They're both five, but they're very different.
And so the first thing I do, if I'm getting on, I'm checking in. I'm thinking, are they relaxed? Is their back tight? Are they braced on the bit? Do they [00:34:00] feel more secure or less secure on a loose reign? So I'm constantly doing that mental checklist as soon as I get on and I work up from there.
So for Jack, if he's tight, usually he needs to do a little more lateral movement and just yielding in his barrel or forward motion to supple, relax him. Whereas Navy is a little bit hotter, like the second you even think put your leg on, she's like outta here. But also the more forward she gets, if she's insecure, she gets a little more panicked.
So to relax her, she needs to slow down a little bit. So for both of them there it's the opposite. And usually that's how it is when you get on a horse, if they're really forward, you need to slow 'em down. If they're really slow, you need to speed 'em up. And that's part of it.
But if I get on Jack, let's say, and I ask him to trot and he's dull off my leg, I have to be a little bit quicker and sharper and get more of a reaction out of him. And then when he gives me that, that's that positive reinforcement piece. Where with him, I know now, is that he [00:35:00] responds, if I pat him on the neck and give a little bit in the reign.
That he knows that, that's good. Yeah. And Navy responds better if you just talk to her and come back down to the walk. That's then she starts to blow out and relax. So as you go and you start asking for things, if you're black and white about it, then if they give me the wrong answer, I'm not gonna get upset about it.
But I'm gonna asking the question until they give me the correct answer and then reward them when they do otherwise. You don't wanna be afraid of the horse making the mistake because of you. If they don't make the mistake, you can't correct it, and then they'll never learn what you wanted in the first place.
Yeah. So I highly encourage them to I let them make the mistake, then I correct it, and then I reward them when they give me the right answer. Yeah. And then over time they learn whatever. And I play around with which rewards work best for each horse. But over time they start to relax and en and enjoy when they get the answer right.
Yeah. [00:36:00] Yeah. And I think it's interesting what you were saying about Navy being that she's a hotter, sensitive type. It must be really nice to know that her reward for doing a good job is to walk so you can go, here you go. Yeah. Because it can be really hard with the horses that are hot and tight like that, finding those areas to actually be able to give to them.
And it's really nice that you've installed this little bit of a parking break situation. Yeah. What is the biggest lesson that Jack has taught you so far on this journey? Expect the unexpected. Definitely that one. Oh my gosh. Newsflash, they're gonna go win. I know. At rp, so prediction.
We'll see. I know.. Stephanie, our other RRP competitor, she is so competitive and it's so not who I am as a person, but she's okay. So I tallied him up and this [00:37:00] is how many competitive trail riders there are and this is how many freestyle people there are.
And usually there's about this much of a drop off rate. So with that math, and I'm like, oh my God. Oh my God, that's so funny. Im super competitive too, I have to say, but I don't care who like, I'm like, so like tunnel vision. I don't wanna know how many people are my, I don't care who the judges.
Yeah. I'm just like, we're gonna go. That's how I am. Yeah. You can only do the best you can do you and your horse can do on a given day, right? Yeah. But when I get to the point where I have a horse that we've gotten to a point where we're comfortable going out and we, something a little more, confirmed. Yeah. Yeah. Then that is when I'm like, okay, watch out everybody. You better watch out because you're not gonna win. I love it. We're gonna talk now a little bit about another passion of yours, which is personal fitness. Can you just tell us a little bit about your own program and what your weekly routine looks like?
Yes. As [00:38:00] I may have mentioned before, I'm really busy, so yeah. My routine is not normally what it should be, but when I'm in a normal routine, I usually go to the gym six days a week. Not everybody needs to do that, but I like to do that much just because if I keep doing it every day, I'm more likely to keep the routine.
Versus if I. One day and then take a day off and then go again. It's less likely to happen for me. I personally like strength training. Usually I'll go and do, back and by and it'll be like a split and my split changes every couple weeks. But it'll be like two back and arm days and a leg day, and then two back and arm days and a leg day.
But honestly, you should just do whatever excites you. I did a little bit of CrossFit for a while. I did Pilates for a while. I did. I've done it all. Yeah. Yeah. Ne were you, are you laughing at me with my recent Pilates experience? Yes. [00:39:00] Uhoh, I downloaded some app like from Facebook and I did one Pilates session and hurt something in my elbow and I, like it was, I went, then the next day I was like, oh, I'm sore, whatever.
No big deal. I went to TJ Maxx. I'm in the dressing room and I'm trying to like button some jeans and just this like little motion. I can't do it. I was like, what? It was like I broke my arm. I'm like, this is what I get. So trying, but there's no reward. No, but I think that strength training is awesome for riders.
It's something that I've done it on and off over the years and I think I was actually talking to a girl in the barn about this today. There was a point where I was running like six miles a day and I was working with this trainer and we'd go out and do like trot sets and I'm like, I'm still winded.
I don't understand how I can still be winded. And she's nothing really gets you fit for riding, like riding. But it is really good to be strong. Like I think it's like with horses, right? Where it's like the stronger you are in your body, the less likely you are to [00:40:00] get injured from normal day-to-day.
Things like trying to make content in the back patio of the barn and you tear your calf muscle. Yeah. And I think too is like for me, like in most of us, we do the same things every day. So a lot of people are like, oh my gosh, you ride horses all day and you're running around the barn all day.
Like, why do you need to go to the gym? I'm like because I only use these muscles and technically that makes me in balance. So I need to go and do whole body like fitness and strength so that I don't fall apart. Yeah. No, that's a great, also, don't turn 40. Whatever you do not recommend. My goodness.
Stay below. Below that. Just go backwards. So how does your own fitness work translate into your riding and training? It has changed everything about how I train especially changed my perspective on everything and how I understand what the horses are going through more. You have a bigger appreciation for warmup and cool [00:41:00] down and stretching.
As well as again, like we just talked about, if you go in the arena and do the same thing every day and don't change it up. Something's gonna go wrong. Yeah. So I think it's important to, to have variety. Yeah. And I think too, like it makes you probably pretty hyper aware about asymmetries not only in your own body, but also with horses.
I've done some work in those the equi bands, that you put like over your body and they strap you into the saddle. And it's fascinating to realize like where these weaknesses lie, whether it's let you collapse the right side of your rib cage or like you don't know how to open your chest or you're stiff in a hip or your right leg creeps up.
And those are all just specific to me. But, just like things like that. And I think it does make you hyper aware of that stuff. And strength training too, will teach you how to isolate certain parts of your body Yes. And feel certain parts of your body that maybe you hadn't before. [00:42:00] For sure.
And do you also encourage your students to think about fitness or provide workout plans for them? Or do you go that far or do you just help encourage them? I have, I don't do it regularly. That is definitely one of my other big passions in life and I would love to do that sort of thing.
I do encourage my students to work out and a lot of them do. And even if it's just like mobility, it's all really important. Is there a specific type of workout or exercise that you would recommend that kind of gives a rider more bang for their buck? I think. There's not like one specific exercise.
Yeah. I think that fitness, so that's like you're squatting, deadlift, pullups, pushups, because the, that's just as you age, we use those, you bend down and pick something up, that's your deadlift, right? Yeah. Like squatting down and picking out hooves and things like that. Wrapping legs. Yeah. So that, I really think [00:43:00] overall as a human, that's really important.
And then I think core, obviously exercises are good to help with riding. Yeah. But I it's hard to just say one Yeah. Of the other. And then as far as a type of workout to recommend, it's really for. Whatever you're gonna stick with, right? There's no one is better than the other. I think it's, if you're, if you enjoy it enough to stick with it, that's the one you should do.
That's excellent advice. I think, in a world where we're just constantly being bombarded by try this, do this 10 minutes a day, you can, and it's like, it can be so overwhelming. And I think like one of the fitness things I used to do is street parking. I don't know if you've ever heard of them, but it's two they're two ex-military people, but their whole idea is that like something is better than nothing.
So every single day they have exercises that you can do, without any equipment. Up to actual, military grade, working out. And every program that they have designed is [00:44:00] staged that way. So it's if you're coming off of an injury, a pregnancy, like whatever, it's like.
So I love that idea of if you just do a little bit every day, you'll create that consistency and that like you're saying, something you'll actually stick with. If I say strength training, you should go do strength training. Someone could go in the gym and start strength training and not enjoy it and they're not gonna stick with it.
But if they wanna go run and they start to run and they like running, God help you. But yeah, you like, you know what, one thing that I always found to be incredibly helpful when I was consistently going to the gym was the rowing machine, I think is a really good activity for riders because it engages so much of what we actually use in the saddle, but specifically helps with the stiffness that I think a lot of riders feel in their hips.
Yeah. And it's pretty low impact. Yeah, no I would agree with that for sure. And for riders listening who want to start improving their fitness, what's [00:45:00] your best piece of advice for just getting started? To just start and to start small. Don't overdo it at the beginning because I am the type of person, 'cause I'm very intense.
I am all or nothing. So I will go start out going six days a week to the gym and you get two days in and you're so sore, you can't move. Yeah. And then you're, oh, I'm gonna have to wait. And then you just fall off the bandwagon. So I honestly, that's me small, like in your head you tell yourself, okay, I'm only going to do this much today.
And then slowly start to build off of that. Because honestly, the biggest part, like what had me falling in love with the gym and fitness, because at first when I started I was terrified of going in the gym and having people look at me and not I don't know what this machine does. I don't know what to do.
Sure. And that intimidates a lot of people. Yeah. And for me, it. Once I got to the point where I could go for a whole week and then the next week, you'll be surprised how quickly your strength, like, how [00:46:00] quickly you feel that difference. So once you get like a whole week in and then you go that second week and all of a sudden you're like, wow, I am doing five pounds more than I was last.
That is where the addiction kind of starts. And then you start to notice things in your body and all that. And that's great too. But it's a shame when people start that and try it and they go too hot, too fast, and then they don't get to that point of their body isn't as sore all the time.
Yeah. And there's definitely an intro period you have to go through. I really like that because it correlates very much to what we like to say about young horses and thoroughbreds is don't get greedy. If you, something's going and you get that small incremental like.
Breakthrough in one day. Don't ask for too much and then have it go backwards. And it's translates there. Don't get too greedy. Yeah. Just easy. Don't drill them so that they hate their work. Yeah. But I think that kind of translates maybe to fitness too, whereby just start small.
Yeah. And don't horses get sore too, right? It's like you're teaching them [00:47:00] to get off a leg or something like that. You can really make them sore just from trying too much on that. And that's what I, that's another good point that I tell my people too. At the beginning of your ride, if your horse starts out a little bit stiff, like if you get outta bed in the morning and you're a little stiff could you imagine if someone was just like.
Pulling your hands down to your toes and be like, here, why can't you touch your toes? Like, why aren't you toe? You're like whoa. I need a second to it'll loosen up my back. It's the same thing, like horses, sometimes they need a second to stretch a little bit or bend off the leg a little bit and then like slowly get to where you want 'em to go.
Absolutely. Because it's easy to get a little stiff after you're working hard and or if they're in a stall or whatever. It's the same exact thing. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I really like that. So what is next between now and the makeover?
Lots of off property at the time. So Sunday [00:48:00] morning. Yes. Yeah, that'll be fun. Before the makeover, between now and then, it's just gonna be getting 'em off property. I feel good about the riding piece of it. As far as like, when he's relaxed, I have a great time on him and he can do the things, but definitely just getting him off property and getting him a little more relaxed and yeah, set him up there.
Gotcha. And is he in the makeover marketplace for advertising? I don't. Did they release sign up? I don't think so. Okay. I was a little confused to be honest about that. Me too. I did the whole thing and then he didn't show up in the thing and I was like, I feel like I rushed for no reason. Wasn't exactly sure what exactly that was.
Yeah. To be honest. Oh, okay. I think they, it's like an advertisement type of things. They have a printed version and then they have I think they'll put it up on like the jumbotron as well. And I think you can still actually get a premier ad listing if you want to before the makeover, [00:49:00] but there is still time to I think get one.
Essentially, I was just gonna sh put your link in for sale in the show notes if you have one. So if you get one, send it to us. We are happy to share it. Okay. So what are your goals for heading into winter with your business, your horses, everything else going on in your life past the makeover?
Yes. This is a little bit the let down period. Everybody's, we're calming down a little bit after show season. And then but also getting to the nitty gritty, now's the time to focus on everybody's weaknesses and deciding if anybody's gonna move up or, what each horse needs to focus on.
Since there's no shows in the next couple months, now's our time to really just pay attention to what we need to pay attention to. Yeah. Gotcha. And finally, what are you most excited about when it comes to stepping into the makeover arena with Jack? Hang on. No, I'm just kidding. Honestly, I'm just excited to be there with [00:50:00] him.
Yeah, take it all in. It's been an unexpected journey, but it's been a fun goal for him and I've just, I'm just having fun with him, so I'm excited to just be there. We are planning to have a little hangout sesh at our stall on Thursday evening. Great. We'll be sure to blast the stall number and everything, once we figure out the details.
But we're gonna be near Chelsea O'Brien and hopefully we'll be somewhere close to Stephanie as well. I should just asked for all of us to be next to each other, like I'm taking all of them.
Yeah. Yeah, but we would love for you to stop by and it'd be awesome to meet you in person. We'll be cheering on Of course. Yes. Yes. So this should be really fun. All right, so Harley, thank you so much for joining us again and sharing an update on your journey. We can't wait to see how things unfold with you and Jack at the RRP makeover and Neve.
Look, I didn't put your outro in. Oh my God. Why [00:51:00] do you do that to me? 'cause I can never find the one you like. You guys know how to find us on social media. Leave us a five star review. We love it.
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