S2 E31: Why OTTBs Win Her Heart: Shannon Riley on Retraining Thoroughbreds and Building Infinity Sport Horse

S2 E31: Why OTTBs Win Her Heart: Shannon Riley on Retraining Thoroughbreds and Building Infinity Sport Horse (Part 1) Transcript
[00:00:00] Hi, and welcome back to OTTB on Tap. I'm Niamh. And I'm Emily. Hey Niamh. What's on tap today?
Today we're talking to Shannon Riley, a talented event, rider and trainer based in Aiken, South Carolina. Shannon runs Infinity Sport Horse where she retrains and sells everything from OTBs to Warmbloods, and she's no stranger to the competition ring. Having competed up to the FEI level in eventing, we're so excited to dig into her training program, her approach to resales, and some important topics she's been speaking about lately on social media like Rider Fitness and dealing with online criticism.
Shannon, welcome. I'm excited to be here. You're so glad to have you here. I think. Awesome. Let's start at the beginning. What is your earliest, that's funny memory of being, being drawn to horses. I just saw your answer. Definitely with my little ponies. I remember watching that show as a kid.
I remember my briers, I remember my parents made me a saw horse that we had in my shed, and I remember [00:01:00] just like spending hours out there, like riding up with little training plans and little lesson plans for the horses. So it goes back to long time. Oh.
Oh, that's awesome. I think we can identify with that. I definitely had my Briar horse collection, which is funny. Apparently I had, I didn't know this, my mom lent it out to a younger cousin of mine and she recently gave them all back to me and I was like, oh my God. I dryer, that's, I have no idea they still existed, but here they are kind fun.
I feel like, were you even a horse girl? If you didn't set up like dressage arenas in your backyard to make your pet pets do things supposed. Oh, I did too with my rabbits. I had, I could never, I wasn't even allowed a dog, so I had two rabbits and I would set up like show jumping and press cut horses in my backyard.
That's so funny. I actually have a big scar on my shin from one time I was jumping over some garden landscaping and it was like concrete barriers and I fell and I cut myself and I remember coming in [00:02:00] mom, I'm bleeding. I need a bandaid. I'm in the middle of a competition out here.
Gotta get back on. Yeah, exactly. So that's a very cute origin story, but where thoroughbred's always a part, they come into your life later. First Horse was an era, but then the first one that we actually went out to buy for the intention of eventing was a thoroughbred. He never raced, but he took me up through training level.
And then I started working Oh, wow. For a friend of mine who did a phenomenal eye in thoroughbreds, Tanya, she did sales. And that's really how I got into riding and learning how to ride thoroughbreds because she'd bring in whatever she found and I would ride whatever she found till we sold it along.
I don't wanna aid you, but did you ever ride on in a long format? I did not ride in the long format time. I rode in a long format later on in my career. Okay. Okay, cool. Awesome. Very cool. So who were some people, some of the [00:03:00] people, trainers, mentors, or maybe even horses who shaped your early race?
So I rode with a phenomenal dressage rider when I was younger. Wendy Sanders. She was married to my eventing coach at the time, but. She was phenomenal. I spent a lot of time lunging horses for her. I spent a lot of time grooming horses for her. I did not spend a lot of time riding horses for her at first, but I did learn the value of a good solid dressage program.
And obviously I lost some of that along the way because she had taught me so much. But she gave me the opportunity to ride her grand pre horse when she got hurt. Yeah, it was a phenomenal wow. She taught me so much about riding and about what I valued in the horses and like riding quality horses and really running a program.
What I wanted to do, even what I didn't wanna do when I had my own program Ken Dirks was a huge influence in my career up in Chicago area where I grew up. I rode with him, gosh, through my first preliminary and on a horse that. I got from [00:04:00] them. I had a retainer mare that spent more time on her hind legs than just about anything else.
But I did get through my first preliminary with her. So yeah, I think those were some of my very formative sort of coaches and riding.
Yeah. I'm going back into your horse history. Your first horse was an Arab and then you had this really spicy trican or mare. I'm like, oh, it went for a long time. I'm seeing a trend here.
You've had a really accomplished career so far. Can you share with us a few of your competition highlights? Oh, this is actually an interesting question. When I was reading through everything, because I would tell you that this is where the imposter syndrome starts for me. Because I would tell you that I haven't had.
A standout thing that I've accomplished. I was like I actually haven't done that much, I haven't really won a big event. I had some good finishes, I've had some great horses. But I haven't won that thing that I felt made me worthy [00:05:00] of being a professional. To hang out my own shingle, whatever you wanna say.
And I recognized it when I was like trying to write down what my accomplishments were that I like need to be a little kinder to myself and what I have accomplished. I've brought probably 15, 20 horses to the preliminary level. I brought my last horse from 4-year-old to the three star young horse and finished in the top five at the three star level.
Wow. He finished six at his first two star. It's funny, like one of my best competition memories you were talking about the long format. I was actually winning the long format through the dressage, through the cross country. And my mayor was owned by a client of mine, a very dear friend of mine.
She was a c cloudy cross ma, who I tried to run her immediate before I did the long format and wasn't fit enough, wasn't totally understanding brushes, so I thought, we thought the long format would teach her a lot. And it did. But in, throughout the cross country course or somewhere along the line, she banged her knee a [00:06:00] little bit and wasn't a hundred percent on Sunday.
And I was devastated. But it was that first time where you're like there's no option about jogging on Sunday. There's no thought about it. You're just like, 'cause a lot of people talk about oh, it's the horsemanship. It's just, you don't even think about it at that moment in time. It's just the only answer for you is you take care of the horse.
But it was that kind of, that so close to a really good finish and something, and she was a great show jumper, but, yeah. I, that's still a key memory for me is like that sort of a thing. I always joke that, yeah I haven't won a neck ribbon and for the love of all things wholly, I wanna run a fucking neck ribbon.
Oh, I wanna do, you wanna do your victory gallon with a neck ribbon in Virginia? I wrote them a scathing review because I was like, I want a goddamn neck ribbon. And the next year, I didn't have an FEI horse in woodman. These gigantic neck ribbons, gorgeous neck ribbons. Oh my God, that's so funny.
[00:07:00] It's interesting that you talk about one of the most important moments being a feeling of not defeat, but it's almost like what alpinists refer to as like Summit Fever, right? So you get to that place where you're literally 200 yards from the summit and you have to make that decision that, you have to make, that is the only decision.
And any other decision would be reckless, both for you and everybody around you. But I think the psychology of getting through that experience has gotta be like transformational in terms of who you are as a horse woman. I solidified having that client Kate, in my barn for the rest of my career.
She bred that marere. I'll get her baby. Yeah. I've had two other babies from her. Someone who's just endlessly been in my corner probably because of that choice.
Yeah. And, can you speak a little bit more about the imposter syndrome thing? I was just gonna ask that. Yeah. Because we, everybody, we both deal with that experience and a great deal and both [00:08:00] a lot of people do. Yeah. And our professional lives and our lives with horses and things like that.
And then something that you said actually reminded me of when we interviewed Ashley Steele Norris, who has, ridden at top levels and had a bunch of really great horses and she kept. Gingerly referring to herself as a professional and professional was in air quotes the whole time.
And finally at the end I was like, you are a professional. Own it. And I'm like, I pay you money to coach me. This is, I don't know. And so I think, can you just talk a little bit more about how you feel about that? And I wanna just also just pinpoint the fact that it is hard to accomplish that goals when you are in an area, like I'm an Area three, area two, you're an area two as well, right?
And then when you're, oh yeah. Okay. So yeah, when you're in those areas where like you're saturated with top riders Yeah. And people that have a huge strings of horses, and it's like that climb feels insurmountable. The Impost Syndrome is something I've talked about, I think at length. I had a wonderful business coach that I hired like a year ago to talk through a lot of this because I [00:09:00] felt like I'd hit.
A plate toe with my business, with my with my riding, I was feeling really a little like I couldn't make that next step. I didn't know what the next step was. I didn't know how to like, I felt like I was in this rut of, I'd sell a bunch of horses and then the competition would fall apart.
And I, somehow I'm, the bills feel like they're insurmountable and I was like, I shouldn't be struggling, right? The numbers should be working better. So I finally talked to a coach about it. 'cause I was like, I think I downplay my own abilities constantly because I think we all do, we were taught at a young age to not be cocky or, overly confident or whatever.
Because that comes off as conceited or what, whatever that is that we, a lot of us, I think grew up with. But it really, she changed my perspective in it. It also actually addressed massage lesson because I went to a clinic. And the coach was just like, gosh not so much like, why are you here for a clinic?
But I was like, oh, I wanna improve my [00:10:00] riding. I wanna get out in front of people. I wanna do, the, I wanna do the things. I wanna be the best that I can be. And she was like, you're, you are holding you back. And it was profound for someone who met me for 40 minutes and call me on my bullshit.
Yeah. Yeah. You're like that's real. That's a real statement. You're like, damn it crying. Because I was just like, am I holding myself back? Yeah. And I was just, I talked poorly about myself. I I wasn't a professional, I sold some horses, but I wasn't all that good at it.
And, sure. Like things have gone fine. But I wasn't a great rider. My husband's very quick to correct me on a lot of this. He's always you are a good rider. You are a good trainer. And it is very important to have someone like that in your corner to help you get through a lot of those things.
'cause I think standing in the mirror telling yourself you're a good rider is hard standing in the mirror telling yourself you're a good trainer, that you're good at your [00:11:00] job. Those are hard things to tell yourself and believe over and over again. So I'm fortunate to have someone that believes that about me and tells me that on a regular basis.
But I do think how we talk to ourselves has helped how I talk to myself has helped me overcome some of the imposter syndrome. I do. Almost. I'm one of the top sale barns in Aiken, in eventing. I am regularly who people recommend for sales. All of those are extremely hard for me to say out loud.
And they're like, oh. And then you're like, oh God, that's like a terrible feeling. And then it shouldn't be. Yeah. I've worked really hard to feel like I can say those things about myself to say that I feel like I'm a good rider, that I'm getting better at my show jumping. But it's so easy to put those like adjectives in front of 'em, saying, getting better or I'm one of, or I am.
Yes. Yes. And I think qualifiers I think I work really hard to try and eliminate talking badly about [00:12:00] myself in any situations. And I tell , my girls the same thing as, that was a great ride. What was good about the ride? What was good about this thing? That combats.
When your first thought's negative. And I think that's a huge way to overcome the imposter syndrome. And for me it's, a lot of times I put myself into clinics, into lessons with people who I like, would tell you that I had no business writing in front of, or that I like, they're just gonna think of me as a name.
But I'm uncomfortable. So I think that's a great learning opportunity for myself. So I think yeah. And self-talk is a really powerful, I think people, 'cause it's, except for a couple of people that I have met that don't actually have a voice in their head, that voice in your head, which I think is crazy, that voice in your head, it can really influence you.
Nope, that sounds nuts. But it really can influence you. You setting your mindset and your, in your day-to-day goals, it can really impact you. I like that too, like the reframing of. In a lesson, like you were saying, reframing it to be [00:13:00] positive and not ever, like me growing up riding, it was, you were just basically constantly yelled at about all the bad things you did funny.
And then occasionally they would be like, okay, good. You did okay. Yeah. Like you did okay. And then you'd be like, on the moon. But I think reframing that to be more positive is definitely very helpful. I think it shows up with the horses too, because I think a lot of times when you're, the psychology of teaching comes in and that you're not supposed to sell someone don't look down, you're supposed to tell them to look up, use a positive sort of so something you can actually fix.
I can't fix, don't look down like I'm, you've told me to look down and that's what I'm gonna look like do. So it's a little bit the same with the horses, right? I'll get in a really nice horse and feel like I, I don't deserve to ride it or something like that. If you talk down to yourself and then all of a sudden this horse is like acting up and you're like, God, like this is a well-trained horse, am I gonna ruin it?
And it changes how you ride. So I think it's important [00:14:00] for me too to just if you're to think more positively about my own riding and my abilities and it really does show up in the horses. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. So sounds like imposter syndrome has been a bit of a challenge, but are there any other kind of big challenges or setbacks that have Oh, this one way, this is a good question and it's something, deeply personal, but I do think it's how I ended up where I am in my life.
Eight years ago I lost two horses in a car accident. I wanted to. Really bad. I've had some other things go wrong in my career and it felt wholly insurmountable. It was my top horse. Yeah. I'd rehabbed, I'd brought him up through preliminary, he'd broke, I'd sold all of my things to bring him back and do the surgery.
That horse is, he was a thoroughbred. And it he was the coolest horse. And I just had everything [00:15:00] that could have gone wrong with that horse went wrong up until the point that he got hit by the car. And so I sent my going intermediate horse out to the East coast with my coach at the time, and I was like, sell her.
I have her for a client. The client doesn't wanna really ride her. Let's sell her. And she was like sure. No I won't be selling her. She's I think I'll ride her for a month. This is like December. She's I'll ride her for December and then I'm going to Aiken. I'll bring her to Aiken with me, and you should come to Aiken.
And I was like with what? I, I didn't have any horses that I, my horses gone like a really nice young horse was gone. I was trying to figure out how I'd make the money work. I had no idea. I had no plan. But he introduced me to someone named Helen who is now a very dear friend, I didn't know anything about her.
And I was like, Hey, I am like thinking about Aiken, can you tell me the details? And she's call me. I was like, oh my God. Who is this person wants to call? Yeah. What a terrible idea. Who wants talk on the phone? Have [00:16:00] her and Helen LA Helen Hill now. And another girl, Katie had the farm down here in Aiken, and I don't really know how, but I managed to bring, I think, 20 horses to Aiken that winter.
With a wonderful friend in groom at the time. I was a higher functioning depressive, like I, I was barely getting outta bed, but I, we'd ride all the horses. The horses got worked, but I think everyone who had a horse then I knew, sent it to Aiken with me that year and an effort to be like, Shannon wants to ride, and it's, no.
And so I came down to Aiken and that's how I ended up moving down here eventually is just I met the people, I met a community. Yeah. I had the opportunity to find a farm that worked for me and I was living actually in Helen's backyard in a camper for a period of time.
And my poor husband, like I had come down here and he'd been down here for approximately three days to shoo my horses at that time. And I was like. So how do you feel about moving to Aiken? And he was like, yeah, sure. [00:17:00] Okay. And I didn't maybe clarify that we were gonna move to a shoebox, but but yeah, so like that's really what I feel like if you can start from zero and still wanna do this.
Yeah. A lot of the other setbacks start to feel Yeah. Slightly inconsequential, right? There's it, when you still have horses that you can kiss their noses, it's still a good day. And I think that's reframed some of my perspective in a bad day at the office. You think, oh, I got eliminated.
I got, I fell off, I did this. All of that is inconsequential in the big scheme of things, and it helps to bring some perspective to all parts of my life. Yeah. And I do think that the, equestrian community as a whole can really support you in ways you never thought possible in your darkest moments of your life.
And I've certainly been there in my own capacity and, had days where Emily was like, I don't care what you do, just come out to the barn and go brush your horse or go wrap your arms around your horse. And I'm [00:18:00] just like, okay. I was just like, oh God. But, 'cause I think at the core of all of us is you have to, I think at least weekly tap into the reason that we're all doing this.
And it's 'cause we all just love horses so much. And we're all just that little horse girl that like Yes. Would oh, could only dream of what we have now. Now that so true. Because it's just my, the girl who was grooming from me at the time, God, she'd bring the horses up to the back porch so I can just like hop on.
Yeah, she was like, you'll feel, she's swing your leg over. Go. And she was right. I always did. And like it did. I think if I had. S stopped in that moment. I think it would've been very hard to get back in the saddle. Yeah. And I was very fortunate that I, sure I did just throw myself, headfirst back into it all.
And I was, honestly, I was so busy I couldn't, didn't have time to be sad or think about anything all that hard at the time. But yeah I had an incredible community that helped me through that. Like I said, people who had no reason to send a horse to Aiken were [00:19:00] like, yeah, I'm sure. Take a Aiken.
Oh, I don't know. I like, to this day, I have no idea how I paid the bills for that year. I just, things just I don't know. It all worked out. I don't know how food got delivered sometimes, like it was magical, but it was, I was very lucky that I, that everyone helped me to just keep going a little bit.
And that's what I needed at that time. Yeah. I hope that this story , resonates with some of our listeners and, that may might be going through their own kind of hard time. And I really appreciate you sharing that story. 'cause I know it's not easy to share those kinds of stories, but we really try to keep it pretty real here on the podcast.
And as much as we like to have fun and everything, I think humanizing some of the people that you look up to in the industry is really important. But I think important, just appreciate you sharing that with us. Like you said, it just, it makes it a little bit Yeah.
Easier for other people to be like, I'm going through a little bit of a hard time. I've lost that heart horse. I've lost that top [00:20:00] horse. It feels insurmountable at the time. Yeah. And you feel like you'll never Yeah. Find another one. Sorry, my cat is doing gymnastics on my lap right now. Your cat really wants to say something.
I know. Really wanting to get involved. So you talked about the horse that you lost in the accident being, the horse that you threw everything into. Was that a horse that kind of changed your trajectory as a rider? Maybe the one that kind of shifted your whole idea of being an upper level rider.
He's he's a funny story sort of all the way through. So I got him because my mom worked at a tax store at the time and this guy had come through to pick up something from them or whatever. He had a horse in the back of the trailer and he was like, yeah, you know anyone who wants a horse?
And my mom's yeah, my daughter wants a horse. Like
it was literal in the parking lot. Bottom out of the back of the trailer. We should ask so many more questions. We did not, oh my. We've been there. It's okay. That might be the [00:21:00] best Acquiring a horse story I might have ever heard. There was another one that bought Illinois a few years later that they bought in the back of the strip club. So really it gets better by the story.
But yeah so we bought this one so good. And I remember it like, and he's beautiful. He's black, all the things. He's just such a typey horse. And I was like, oh, he'll be an easy resale, right? So I like go to get on him the first time. And I like, again I should have asked more questions.
He was four. He didn't race. He was in the back of some guy's truck. So then I go to get out. I was in that like horrible, like you're halfway swinging your leg over when that sucker bolted so fast that I slipped off backwards immediately, if not sooner. Oh yeah. So he found out maybe why, I mean he out, why he was for sale quietly.
I'm like, banging on. Yeah, sure. And then the moment I was like a, oh, a halfway over here was like, yeah, nope. Oh my God. Does this story sound familiar? Yeah. [00:22:00] We had one like that Neve was holding when I went to get on it. I now, he'd run like 25 times, comes a total gentleman. So well mannered.
Like you never would've guessed it. And, but he was huge. He was over 17 hands and we had one of those crappy little, like two step mounting blocks. Yep. Because the three step mounting blocks were so expensive. A client comes out and she's oh, would you get on him? I'm like, sure. He's so quiet.
Like I hadn't been on him, but, and I don't, wouldn't normally get on one. Oh, of course. And it wasn't like a VIP client. Yeah. We knew her and whatever I get same thing. Halfway on Neve was holding them. Did not let go. I give her, I did not let go. I somehow got the saddle. I dunno how see.
Yeah, no, I was was fine and I just, I didn't even, I was free balling it. I just yeah, got hop on.
No, I think at one point Emily once she finally got in the saddle, she like looked over after I had like water speeded halfway around the ring and she goes, you're still holding on. True. Told me right there. Really? [00:23:00] Yeah. That's where the training comes in. And the muscle memory you, that's so funny.
But yeah, so honestly he did that his entire career. I mean he was running preliminary and I'd have to go, oh my God, to the back corner of a field, find a bucket. Oh yeah. Like Mr. Law one time at the whole Florida Horse Park was like, if you don't make it an eventing, you really could take up vaulting.
Because I just so good. You like took a breath and then I'd swing my leg over and then he'd go get like a 25 in the flat. It was lovely. It could have been an equitation horse. Oh my God. It was oh, nice. But always a dick to get on and I like this will tell you, I spent so much time trying to get on this horse from the beginning.
I built an entire Sandman so that I could throw it on his back. Let me preface this by saying I did not comprehend how heavy a sandman might be. Oh my God. Like throwing these like jeans over this horse sand. [00:24:00] Oh my God. It was like, gave us like a black guy. The horse was traumatized. Finally, I was just like, forget it.
I'm just gonna figure out how to get on. I was like working for Katie RuPaul, and she was like, is it always like this? I was like, and she's do you wanna fix it? I was like, I don't think so. I think this might be, I'm not sure it's fixable. I'm losing at least once I lost him at the Florida Horse Park one time, or at the Kentucky Horse Park one time.
Oh. And one time it was like the middle of summer. Oh man. In the preliminary or something. And at the Kentucky Horse Park, they have those little fences around one of the arenas and it's like a bazillion degrees. I'm in my coat. Someone walks up to try and hand me water and I reached out, bolts uhoh right up over the edge of the arena, lands on like the cement.
I was like, oh my God. This is the end. The horse. Yeah. Is, but he won just about everything he ever ran. But he changed a lot of my perspectives [00:25:00] on, putting this is gonna sound it, it changed a little bit of my perspective on putting all of your hopes and dreams on one horse and how every horse takes on so much more than a lot of things too, right? We put so much into the horses. It's our hopes, it's our dreams, it's our goals, it's our aspirations, it's our highs, it's our lows. All on this four-legged suicidal animal,
which feels like a terrible, what is wrong with us idea? What is wrong with us? God I, losing them just feels like you are chopping off your own arm because there's so much tied into it. And, you tie it into one horse. And God, that poor horse has like so many expectations in its life.
And, I think a lot of people get hung up on obviously in sales I [00:26:00] see it quite a lot that, this horse has to fulfill these goals and dreams and this horse. But I bought it. I like, we've done all these things. Like it's just got to do something X, Y, or Z.
And they just, they can't comprehend that pressure the same, that we put on them. And, it's hard to do that to the horses. Yeah. And I think, he really helped me comprehend, the pressure I put on him in a way in hindsight because I was like, God that's too much to put on another being in a way because it's just, he can't live up to all those expectations, no. And he doesn't know what those expectations are, right? Like he's just happy to see you walk in the barn every day and, it's like the best day of his life every time he sees you, probably. And I think a lot about that, when you do have that one special horse or whatever, that you have to be okay with a life of, maybe the only thing you're gonna ever be able to do is see their head.
Yeah, that's exactly it. Because he got hurt weekly, [00:27:00] but he had a catastrophic hawk injury. We had to take like a chip out of his hawk. He had a hole in his knee, the size of Kansas at one time. And I had just come to terms nobody else could get on him.
So I was just like, this horse is gonna live with me forever. Can't give it away. That feels like a liability. So I was just like, I, again, I come to terms with it like. There may be a day that all he offers me is, a snuggle. And that has to be okay with you in some ways.
Yeah. And that it's okay that if he doesn't fulfill those other things that you put on them because he doesn't know, he is not, can't comprehend what he is meant to do for me. Like I, that's a, it's a weird pressure to put on the horses that we all do, right? Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. And we always say they're, they don't know.
Yes. They're happy just going out in the field and eating grass. Yes. No, they don't have folks. Maybe they do, but I don't think that, [00:28:00] but they're not like I'd like to go to Kentucky. So true. Him And then I had another really phenomenal intermediate mayor that taught me so much about the realizing that a lot of naughty behaviors come from pain and that there's a lot.
More levels of things than just ugh, put it in some draw reins and fix it. It's just not, it's just not very good at the dressage because we're not very good or, you gotta be better. You gotta train it better. You gotta to do this better. Sometimes it's just God, like for si it was raging pain and she couldn't sit.
Yeah, it's, yeah listen to the horse and it's so easy. It's trying to sell you so something's easy to try and be like, oh, he's just being a, he's being a pony, he's being naughty. He's doing this. Like, why? Why doesn't it wanna do this work? Why is, in theory, you know what, if you do progressive work with a good trainer and a good program, things shouldn't [00:29:00] suddenly get bad and violent and dissolve into 1 million pieces, right? They will like once or twice, but if every day things are going awry, sure. You gotta take a minute and be like, okay, so what's really going on here? What's maybe, what am I missing? Does my saddle fit? Does, are these the right shoes? Is it sound, is it, maybe sound.
And I am manufacturing the sound is because of, good riding. Do I actually need to soft and address what this is? But yeah, she taught me a lot about that. You can get a real long way with a kind, brave, honest force, but there is a point where they're like, Hey, so you've taken advantage of my good terrible, like demeanor.
Yes. There's holes in my body. Holes, but there's holes there. Holes in the training, there's holes in, your, my education as a rider and like horsemanship and yeah. I'm doing, I think I'm doing the fitness work, and you're like, you're really off base. I'm not horse.
You're just, and you realize it, you're [00:30:00] like, oh like she just ran outta gas. I, she just didn't give it her, all that last one. That's why she ran out. No I probably didn't have her fit enough for her to get to that point and be a little wrong. And then still be able to jump, and she taught me so much about that.
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. If you could go back and give your younger self one piece of advice about get Medicaid too, you've been on, what would it be?
Fair enough. I laugh, but like I started taking meds for A DHD and it has been literally life changing and. But like you, that's amazing. You blame a lot of your like, dumb behaviors, like on, that's just who I am. I'm forgetful, I'm this, and, God, it would've saved me so many headaches if I had just talked to somebody when I was younger about what I, how I felt about things and what I was struggling with.[00:31:00]
And somebody could have maybe helped me a lot sooner and God, my life would've been a lot easier.
Yeah. Yeah. No it's interesting like I've been someone who's been very vocal about mental health and I've taken medication on and off for the, since I was probably 20 years old, when I finally was like, oh, this isn't normal. This what I'm dealing with on a daily basis is not like this would kill somebody else, and I in the last like year or it was like the last couple of years I finally had the money to go out and buy a trained horse for the first time in my entire life. And I was like, this is gonna be so fun. I can't wait to do it. And I was so physically ill because my good anxiety, my anticipation anxiety does the same thing to my body as my bad anxiety.
And I was like, I can't be sick. Going to try horses around the country. This is insane. And I was like, if this is how it's gonna be, maybe I should just put my money in the bank or something, and so I talked to my doctor and I was like, I need something to just [00:32:00] control the physical. And I just asked for what I needed. I was like, I need something to control the physical response that my body has to anxiety and worry. And they were like, oh, amazing. Beta blocker amazing. And I was like, yes. Emily can attest to this, amazing, I'm a different, and it's nothing about my personality has changed. It's the fact that because I've done the work and therapy and everything like that, I have the ability to use coping mechanisms that I've learned without letting my body betray me in the moment.
And yes, I still have worry about things that I'm doing, but my confidence about my capability and what I'm actually able to do, it's transformed com. I would've never signed up to do the makeover. Like just that on its own. I would've ne I would've been like nope. And so it's, and we talk about it, we talk about old Neve and new Neve.
Yeah. And I wanna, and we've talked about this on other episodes, but I really want you think it's, I more people to talk about, I've talked about it a bit on Facebook and whatever, but I used to [00:33:00] just be like seven. Clowns in a cat car. It was just so many different directions, like the brain's here.
This, I like, couldn't just finish a thaw. And finally I was like, thank God for TikTok, Instagram, whatever you wanna say. I was like, I could just try it. What's the worst that could happen, right? And I was like, oh, cool. I can finish a thought, I can go through a checklist, like an adult.
I can get out of bed every day with a purpose and not feel. Overwhelmed. Many things I have to do. I can make the it showed up for me a lot in, I used to hate eight, eight, eight, making phone calls. I still do. It's like still the be of my existence, but, I like used to have to like, write down what I was gonna say.
I, you saw my stupid notes Uhhuh, and I was like, I need a, like a plate. Yeah. No, I've done the same thing. Literally [00:34:00] script like a conversation for oh God, I have to call my credit card company to ask them about a charge. Whatever. It's gotten better seven days of avoiding these like very non-consequential fakes, right?
You're just right. And then allowing yourself to get, you'd rather get in trouble a little bit. With whatever the task or then you're like I've left it go way too long now. So now I have to go into witness protection because I can never speak to that person ever again. Picking up my half chaps from Bart, oh my God, need do it.
Because they kept calling me. It's an Amish text shop, so they can use their phone from 8:00 AM to 8:15 AM or something to call you and let you know that their stuff is that your stuff is ready. But I let it go months and I was way too long. This Amish lady hates me because I've not picked up my half chaps and it like turned into a whole thing.
I made Nve go pick 'em up and I'm like, did she say anything? And she's no, I just paid for them. And I know thinking about you, stop it. I'm like, I have a wonderful plan. She looks she's gonna look at me and be like, that's the lady that left her half chops [00:35:00] here for three months. I know we put these like real like weird expectations and you're like, oh, that person's never gonna talk to me again.
I have a client right now who's Amish and same thing I like, he'll call me and leave a voicemail and Okay, Han you're gonna call him tonight. Like for sure tonight's gonna be the night. I have three other sources, right? One just showed up 'cause he left me a voicemail and I didn't listen to it.
'cause I thought he was gonna be mad at me and I how he was gonna be mad at me about listening to a voice. I don't know. Am I a crazy person? I get it. I totally get it. Okay, we're gonna switch gears a little bit here and we're gonna get right into the thick of it, which is the OTTB connection.
So you've worked with so many, I think they're so damn smart. They're they pick things up so quickly. They try so hard so often. I don't know if there's another breed that I've ever ridden that comes out every day, it's yeah, let's do this thing. [00:36:00] And 99% of the thoroughbreds that I've ever ridden have come out with this everyday what did I do today?
Enthusiasm that matches mine. And that helps. I, and I think that thoroughbreds always give me this glimpse of what could be, right? More than even like the warm bloods, like you'll ride a nice warm blood and like you'll feel the progress. But like the brs, every once in a while you'll canner down to a little er and they'll just, jump the ever living hell out of the jump.
And you're like, that, that feeling, that's it. And like they give you that moment of excitement. You're like planning, you're thinking. And I so enjoy. That moment with them where they get it and it clicks and they're like, yeah. And like I said I love my warm bloods. I've had some really nice ones along the way, but they're very systematic in their development because like they've had no, we, they've never had a hard change of direction like the thoroughbreds have, right?
And so the thoroughbreds like, when they get it, they're like, oh, this is new, this is exciting, this is so cool. And you feel that moment that they get it. And that's, I think why I really [00:37:00] always enjoy the thoroughbreds. I have a sail horse right now that he's an, he's eight. He was a steeple chase.
He's one of Jeff Redmonds. And he just gives you this feeling of God, I could feel this horse going preliminary. What's going to it's gonna put the pieces together. 'cause like it hunts down to that, those flags like nothing. And yeah, that, that's what brings me back to feral breads.
That's awesome. Do you remember the very first thoroughbred that you brought into your program? That's what stood out about that experience. The first real off the track thoroughbred I have memory wise. Yeah. You can fib a little if you want. I know. Honestly, no one's gonna fact check this episode.
Maybe some of the trolls on your Facebook. We'll get to that later. I think Jag was probably the first thoroughbred that I kept with any intention long term. And he's the one that, like I brought up through preliminary, he was, I got the thoroughbreds because I did a lot of reselling to try and find my next [00:38:00] separate level horse when my tru retainer Marere broke.
Right before Young Riders. So I I traded her for a little warm blood cult. Sold him, bought a thoroughbred, did I knew I could flip in that market, right? I could do some retraining, do some sales. I had some good connections there. But it was always with the intent of finding my next upper level horse.
So the thoroughbreds were they were always a means to I get this, you'd see so many people that would get that one thoroughbred that took 'em from Pony Club to Kentucky, right? And I was so certain if I just had enough of them come through my barn, one of 'em would. Yeah, unfortunately you find that one, know the reality of a sales program like mine and the fact that I don't have any financial backing of any sort.
Even when I would find those really good, exciting ones, I couldn't really actually afford to keep 'em at that point in my life. So I sold a few on that have gone on to do. Three star with someone else or whatever. And but yeah, it was always that I could ride them.
I knew how to ride them and I [00:39:00] knew I liked riding them and it was an easy market for me to sell into. And I had someone who had great taste in Thoroughbreds that helped me a lot. That makes sense. Oh really? Yes. That helps. That always helps. Yeah, for sure. So tell us a little bit about your business, about Infinity Sport Horse.
What's a typical week? So it's, that was there's no, I like not, I am chaos in ate. I was talking to the girls about this. Oh guys, what do you think like a typical week here is? And they're like you forgot to tell us one horse was coming in. So a trailer will show up at one moment.
You'll have Doffed, some clinic you're signed up for without telling us. Three people have come to try a horse that you forgot to tell us. It's easy. I'm fortunate at the farm that I'm renting right now. I have a ton of great hacking and everything, so I can be here a lot more than I have in the past.
And so it has been nice to we're here a lot. We go, cross country schooling at the vista a lot. I'm at stable view a lot. I'm not sure there's like a [00:40:00] typical week other than to say that I have too many horses on any given week. But yeah that's a little bit, the week is a little bit chaos incarnate.
Asking a more of a specific question about the chaos. How do you juggle training, competing and managing? So I, your sales business have always. Wanted to ride first and foremost, that's always been something I have prioritized. I like teaching, but it doesn't bring me as much joy as the riding does.
So I've tried to really prioritize riding my horses, my competition horses first in the morning. And honestly like nothing in my business would be possible if I didn't have great staff. I have two girls right now who are wonderful. I've been lucky all the way through my career with phenomenal people who have shown up every day shown up with enthusiasm, shown up when it was hard, showed up, when it was easy.
So that it makes it very [00:41:00] easy. I can get through. Eight horses in a day without blinking because the girls can like, rock through getting me on and off horses, taking care of 'em. I trust them implicitly to take care of the horses when I'm done riding them, which helps immensely. I think I've let go of some of my control issues in my old age.
But it does make a difference. It's hard because if you give other people control obviously I'm very hands on in like how the day in and day out sort of stuff goes. Yeah. But I do try and prioritize getting on and being very focused and very intent in what I'm doing. I put my headphones in and I try and be very focused on.
Riding the horse that I'm on. I always joke that I have a goldfish memory as far as horses are concerned, because, brilliant most of my life, if we're honest. But people ask me like, oh, what's this horse feel like left or right, or whatever. And I get on every day and I cannot remember what happened yesterday.
So I just don't get on with preconceived notions. So I tended to [00:42:00] just ride the horses, which I think yeah. Helps it, it helps I think. And I prioritize competing. I prioritize my own lessons. I take a lot of lessons. I take lessons on my sail horses. I take lessons on my competition horses.
I have an entire line item on my taxes every year for lessons. I ride with Waylon Roberts quite a lot. What trainers do you work with? And I've been show jumping with Grant Wilson quite a lot when he's in town. Which has helped my show jumping quite a bit. I've had some great coaches dressage coaches in town that I'm able to ride with pretty regularly.
And, whenever I'm feeling stuck in something, I show up to somebody with four horses. I'm like, teach me all the things on these four very different horses. But I think I am able to leave my business because I try and really empower the girls to do some of the showings to, ride the horses for the sales, for the showings.
Because I do think it's, you think about this [00:43:00] Facebook symptoms and free riding sales horses is very popular, especially in the hunter jumper industry before people come to try 'em. And I think sometimes when I ride a horse, I'm going to present it slightly different. Then maybe the girls are gonna present it and I think sometimes people will be like I'm not gonna ride it as good as you.
And then they get self-conscious about how they're riding and then they're not like riding to the best of their ability because they're like I'm not gonna ride it as good as you are, or whatnot. And so I've found good success in having the girls ride 'em and they give them so much education and puts the pressure on them and they start to learn to handle a different pressure of showing horses for sale and the good, the bad, the ugly of that.
So I trust them to show the horses for me if I'm on a turn at a competition. So really I don't ever have to worry about oh, I can't go to this show because I've gotta show this horse on this weekend. Or I've got a vetting on Friday. I have incredible girls that like, make sure everything runs seamlessly for that.
[00:44:00] Yeah. That's so important. And I think, we certainly dealt with this when we were working together where it was like sometimes the horse just went a little bit better for, or Emily's really tall, yeah. And so I'm medium size, so put me on and because people can't visualize that.
They can't understand that sometimes they see somebody with long legs get on the horse. We're like, that one looks small. You said it was 70 hands. It's like this thing is 17 hands. So yeah it's definitely really nice to have that kind of balance and for the bettings and everything too.
I can tell you that the experience that I got from participating in and jogging horses for vettings is like some of the best experience I've ever gotten being around horses. That's a great education. Education, great education, having this relationship with vets where they actually talk you through what they're looking for during a vetting.
I'm like, this stuff is like, it makes such a difference immersed in my brain. And I think there's no other way to get it than being in immersed in it. And I think like it's very easy to wanna be secretive in this business. It's like the culture. And I hate [00:45:00] it. So I really try and be yeah.
As transparent with the girls as I can be about what the costs are, what the expenses are. They see what my grain bill is, they see the vets are they know what I spend money on for the vet bills. Why I call the vet. They know why I call the vet. They know when I call a farrier they, it's, I really feel like when they leave my program, they do know whether they want to do this or not, because that's pretty clear what it really is.
I think when I got into it, yeah. I had no idea really what it all costs. I didn't really understand, how much, even like just simple that Bill would be right. Like that. It just to call a vet out, it's three $50. And you're, because you're not sure if it looks a little lame.
And so you do start getting better at the lameness evaluation when you sit through 90 vettings in a year. But, yep. Yeah, for sure. So , in your business, when you're evaluating an off track thoroughbred for resale, what are some of the kind of green flags? Or good things [00:46:00] that you look for? My husband was a farrier for a long time, so I am a Nazi about feet. I think there's a lot of things you can fix with a good farrier, but feet are a tricky one.
So I think I value Good Feet. Yeah. Uhhuh immensely in the off the track thorough bros. I know a lot of us like watch the jog videos on the track and, you can tell a little bit about a jog video. Mainly. I do think it's very important to learn how to judge soundness in a jog video. And I don't think that's a hard thing to learn unless you watch 9,200 jog videos.
Welcome to our life, where even though we don't buy and sell anymore, we just send them to each other constantly. One day I played a game with like our Facebook group where I was like, I have 430 tabs open in Chrome. How many of those are equip based?
Or I think it was like 70% of them or something. 'cause it's that's how you learn is by honing your eye and learning how to listen for soundness and not to look for sound. [00:47:00] Oh, for sure. And I think I'm things, I'm a big proponent in breeding. I think that there's certain lines that I always look for that I've enjoyed working with.
Oh, did we ask her that question at some point, Emily? Oh man, we do. I might write that down. And it's funny. I know I gonna, because we're nerd about it, I'm gonna stress, but I do, I know when I look at a breeding, I tend I'm gonna get slaughtered for this, but I, the storm cats get such a bad reputation and I think it's so misplaced, but it does make them hard to resell.
And so I do think the people that love 'em, and some people love them. Yes. But there are love them, a lot of people. And I've had some phenomenal ones and I think if you can ride a good one, like you have a great one. But, unfortunately for me, I always go back to the commercial aspect of things.
You have to, and so Yeah, you have to. Oh, for sure. I think it depends on the other aspects of the breeding too, right? If you have storm cat coupled [00:48:00] with other lines that are known to be. Difficult or, temperamental or whatnot, then it compounds. But Right. Like when I looked up my breeding, I looked up my name on the equi base the other day.
There's one horse named Neve with my spelling, and it was an English channel and a storm cat. And everybody was like, hard pass, pass. And Emily's like a sky mesa and something else. And I was like, oh, Emily, you gonna, that's hilarious. Actually I had really good breeding.
Yeah. That's how dirty We're hard because I don't think I, I think it's my generation that kind of that 20 to 30 year olds really understand and looked and cared about the breeding. And I think it's a missed education point. And I'm not sure how we fix it, but like I, yeah I love it.
I love it. We're trying to, because I do think it's important 'cause people will look at a pedigree and go, oh, storm cat, there will be no other discussion. There will be no other conversation. Is it a Tale of the Cat or is it a Stormy Atlantic? Totally. We're talking about two totally different horses there.
[00:49:00] That conversation isn't being had as much, 'cause they're just like, oh, I've already ruled that horse out. Is it on the dam side or is it on the side or So much. And so for me, like it's a lot of factors there, but there's always that commercial ability of it. So I do think that I look for that.
Yeah. I always look for Yeah. The horse that I, there's, you can see a good eye in a video, in a picture and like what you are absolutely so unhelpful kitten.
I like a horse that like they've got a soft eye even in the jug video. And 'cause I do think that in the chaos of the track, if they're just yeah, this do be life. I find those are very, that's very telling about who they're going to be long term. And I'm a big proponent that you have to judge the walk because the walk and the canner I was just about to ask you, I was like, if you could ask to see either the walk or the trot to take a horse, they're not the walk every day.
They're not over tracking the trot and the canner's gonna be garbage. It just. [00:50:00] No, it's very, I bought my RRP horse basically off of a five second walk video. We saw the walk and I was like, oh, that he's gonna have a really good canner.
Emily canned him for the first time today and was like, this canner, you can see it really awesome. Can, yeah, you can see it in the if you can see it good at being able, and again, I have 70 horses go through my barn in a year, so I watch a lot of videos of myself riding. But you do start to see the correlation of the walk in the canner.
You get to see, I can improve a trial. You can imp improve. It's a little bit like the same thing with the jump. A lot of times you can improve the front end. It's very hard to improve a bad hind end. So , those are the things are important to me.
Yeah, that makes sense. What do you think the difference is between a horse going to a confident amateur versus one suited for a pro? What are some of the characteristics that you see as you're along? So for the [00:51:00] initial flat-footed walk like there are some that are just never gonna happen.
They're never going to take that deep breath and they're never gonna find zen as I like to say, without a lot of guidance. And I think if as a confident amateur you are trying to find a horse for yourself, trying to fix a walk as hard so I try to think that, my good co amateur types have that take that deep breath.
They take that flatfooted walk and even if they like, get a little excited in the canner. Or a little whatever. That can come with time. But I think. If they're starting off in the walk and they're at a hutter in the walk, they're very unlikely to be at zero in the canner, yeah. That's nice to know that you have a sort of like a neutral or like a downshift or like a parking break kind of setting where you can go, okay. If they get a bit frazzled, I can just drop the reins and let them walk off and let them go, and then we start over again. But if you can never drop the reins and get [00:52:00] them back then that's never gonna work.
This preconceived notion that you need that hot spicy horse to go to the upper levels.
And honestly, my three star horse went three star in a leather sna hole. I like fell asleep in the start box. I don't think they have to be that fire breathing dragon. To be successful. But I do think they have to want to do the job.
Yeah. And I, I always find that there's sometimes that difference between perfectly happy to do the job and like wants. Would jump from any distance, from anywhere with any, like any variation of pointing towards the flags, they wanna float back into them. And I find that's an important trait for the professional sort of horses that they have to look through the flags, look through the question, really want to start to anticipate.
'cause to me that's what the best separate level horses do. Is they start to anticipate what the next question's gonna be. Yeah. [00:53:00] That they're gonna go here, that they're gonna go there, that they're looking for something else. The amateur horses, I wanted to land and almost think, stop.
That they're gonna just like you tell me what we're going to do next. And we'll do this as a partnership. But kinda the upper level ones are like eyeing up, you jump the cross rail and you're coming back and they're like, we could do that. Er, that's kinda like right there.
Not really in our line, but a guy could just do it. Yeah, for sure. I think somebody on one of the off the track or eventing Facebook groups the other day posted they were looking for a specific photo series of somebody who completely lost their reigns cross country. Oh really? And I think it was, I wanna say it was like a Philip Dutton series, but I.
My contribution was to, it was when Kim Severson was jumping this huge hammock, I forget where it was, but it's like this. Oh, iconic hammock. Yeah. And she gets a weird distance, loses her reins at the first third over that fence. And there was something to [00:54:00] do three strides away.
And like she lands just with her arms, just kinda like, all right, no reins, lands, somehow grabs her reins, but not enough to do anything. And the horse is just like a heat seeking missile, over the second element. And I was like, yeah that's that kind of horse, that's like such a totally different ride.
Yeah. And I think you can feel it honestly at this point, the ones that are just perfectly happy to like, go in a line, stay in a line, stay in a straight line. That's what I want for my amateurs, right? Like I have one really sweet gelding that we're bringing along with his amateur owner.
And I was just like, you just wanna hold. And he is green, right? He's still just learning to jump and everything. I'm like, but I promise you if you just hold onto the next strap, it's gonna go, he's gonna go down the line. And bless his heart, he is thought about nothing else and staying straight.
Yeah. And that's why, I love him for her because he is just genuine. When she pulls, he slows down, like he's making no new independent thoughts [00:55:00] and I love him for it because it makes him very safe. Yeah. And you wanna be able to have that horse that.
You don't have to worry about every single time that you get on that. The professionals like, I ride six days a week, right? Like they, they go six days a week, they're doing something. There's always mental stimulation, I want a horse that for an amateur that life gets in the way.
You don't ride for six days, that's to no detriment to you or the horse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great analogy. I really like that. Okay, so switching back a little bit to some more thoroughbred stuff. When you first get one off the track, what's your approach for those first few weeks? And what do you prioritize?
So it's funny I think a lot of people. Want to just kick the thoroughbreds out into a field and give them the off time. So I have had very little success with doing that. Yeah. I find that they tend to self-harm [00:56:00] when left to their own devices. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause they don't understand what you're doing.
They're like, why am I out here? I'm, I have a job. I have a job. They like having a job. They've only ever had a job they've had and I think a lot of times people mean to be good and mean to give them like, this rest and let their body. But I do think you can do all of those things without dropping them on their face.
For sure. Yeah. And even if you're out riding them, you don't have to be riding them per se, but they do want to feel like they're doing something all the time. Yes. And like for me, I do a ton of hacking with a friend. When they first come off the track, like even if it's around the field and I always think that it's, I walk a lot of poles.
I let them, try and do some groundwork. I do think groundwork is hugely important, and like finding someone to teach you good groundwork or even just spending a lot of time watching videos, like getting a feel for your horse on the ground is so important. It's, I'm just chuckling because I [00:57:00] spent I got my RRP horse and at the end of November, and when I say he's green under saddle, like he's pretty green under saddle.
But I have been doing, I've been taking him places and doing all this stuff with him and working with him on the ground and doing all this just really intense like emotional regulation work and yeah, it has. Paid off in a way that like, I feel like I became like a new horse woman from working with this particular horse.
It's like giving me this appreciation of what was missing in his life and what needed to be implemented to the point where he was gonna then be like, I'm ready for whatever you wanna bring at me next. I couldn't agree more. And I think that it's an overlooked part, and especially obviously in the culture of bring in, get done, sell.
Sure. It's hard to be like, oh like I have, realistically I'd like to sell the source in 90 days. How much time do I spend doing groundwork with it? But I like even teaching 'em to jump, God, I can do it so much better [00:58:00] from the ground. Yeah. And if I have the coordination from the ground of their feet, I'm so much more likely to have the coordination of their feet from on top.
Yeah. And if I can guide them in a rope halter in a lunge line over a log, I'm so much more likely to be able to do the same thing from their back. Yeah. And they understand the concept. They get to feel it on their own. I think they gain a ton of confidence too, like in who they are. Like when they understand how their body can work in a new way, I think they get like a little cocky.
They, yeah. They get really excited about it. Self-confidence and installing self-confidence in a horse is like the most underrated ability. Yeah. That I think I would. I would will that to everyone is to teach your horse to have some self-confidence. Yeah. I think that's really important.
Like you said even just like going places and like doing it on the ground and you don't even have to get on the horse at the show venue the first time. Yeah. Take them, on the line and let 'em just take a deep breath. Yeah. I took my RP horse to a lesson in the [00:59:00] winter. My first like off property experience was Sally Cousins who I know so well.
And I, it wa it went every poor way it could have gone. He had such a meltdown. He had such a meltdown. You were in an indoor, there were a lot of horses. It was like a kind of, that booming sound. Yeah. When there's horses centering and jumping, horse jumping and I went to pull him out and I was like, why is he lathered poor dude?
And I was like, oh my God. And it just, but honestly i'm glad that happened 'cause I was like, this horse is insecure and he has no emotional regulation. How do I find out what he's naturally gifted at and how do I make him feel like a million bucks every time I work with him?
And so when I say it changed my philosophy in working with horses, oh my God, this horse has really changed me. I love, that's like the. Most articulate way I've heard it said but like, how can I make this horse the best version of himself, essentially? Yeah. And I found out that he was really good at being curious and brave.
And I was like, okay, so we're just gonna go to obstacle [01:00:00] courses and we'll do 'em in hand, and if you're great doing them in hand and I'll hop on you and we'll do 'em together. And I literally, it was like, the more you, the more like inquisitive work I threw at him, the more he was like, I'm really awesome at this.
I'm so brave. I'm so curious. And I was like, we don't have a good walk track canner, but guess what? I can walk the fire. Yes. But I think all those things come right. Yeah, they do. Yeah. It's so much easier to work on the trot when you're like I have the walk. Yeah. I have the, like the, I have his belief in me.
Yes. Yeah. That's a big thing. Yeah. And so you can work the trot, even from the ground, you can improve the trot in the canner from the ground. If you have the curiosity, right? So Okay. Maybe you don't do your trot work in the ring with that horse. Maybe you do a ton of your trot work like in the field Yeah.
Up and down a hill. Yeah. And slowly bring it to the ring. I think so many people rush address, [01:01:00] dress hash test essentially, what's, there's no need to, some horses do just naturally walk truck can or go into a ring and some good riders can make most donkeys do it, right?
Yeah. Truly it's, it doesn't mean that that's the right move for every horse. Yeah. I think like relaxation is the priority in the pyramid, and whether you get that from on top of them or from the ground, it's gotta be the priority. I think there's gonna be a whole new pyramid that comes out in the next couple of years where emotional regulation is like more of
a real crucial component of horse training. And I think like a term that we don't associate with negatively. I think it's gotta be a positive association. Yeah. I think some people still feel like saying you're teaching your horse emotional regulation is like a akin to coming out with a carrot stick.
It couldn't be any more different than that though, no, it's like when you see how they interact with one another [01:02:00] and how they mirror one another's behavior and how, like it just says a lot about I, I think the fact that they will do anything for us is phenomenal. I think it's it's mind boggling to me that these animals that are bred to be prey will accept us doing anything with them. Come on, get in this dark box that's on wheels. Like all that kind of stuff. But I think that a lot of horses just do stuff because they're just it's conditioning, right?
And, but then I think when you have a horse that's truly. Emotionally in control of themselves, they will give you way more than a horse that is insecure and feeling like they actually don't, there's a missing piece. I think that's so true, and I think it's so key and I think it's so overlooked. Like I said earlier, a little bit that you can get so far with a genuine animal.
Yeah. That has all the heart and all the ability and all the keys, but if you missed that emotional regulation step where they actually understand their job. Yeah. And you really have [01:03:00] nothing. Yeah. You don't have a foundation. Yeah. No it's I'm really enjoying the conversations that I'm having with horse women, and especially in the last couple of months.
It's been really awesome. Speaking of emotional regulation, or just exercises and things that you like to do with green horses, what are some things that, when you don't have a horse that has all the basics pre-installed, what are some things that you like to work on them with?
I think it's I like to do a lot of work on I like to do a lot of work on the trails and then hacking. I think you can do a ton of work with a friend and just like slow, boring. Oh, homework, right? So when they go cross country schooling with me the first time, and I can sense that we're going to accomplish exactly three things today, right?
I'm not going there and being like, oh, I'm gonna school water. I'm gonna school the ditch. I'm gonna school like 17 logs. No. Sometimes all we're doing is we're gonna walk to this field, we're gonna touch that tree and we're gonna walk back and I'm gonna get off.
Exactly. It's first of all, you're [01:04:00] gonna get on if you can. Yes. Start there. It's re it's reconfigure your expectations a little bit and go, For me, I think. The circle is, so I rode with Eric d Evander a few years ago in a clinic. And he did this exercise where basically you walked and you trotted and you cantered essentially on a 10 meter circle, and you never trotted faster than you could sit the trot.
Oh wow. And if you never cantered, it could, you just had to walk and troop. And that's what we did. And we stayed on the circle and I was dizzy by 23 minutes in. But God, it was such a good, you realize it's such a simple exercise no, don't come off my inside leg.
Nope. No, don't go off the outside leg. Just like between the lights a little here, exercise. It's a hard exercise in the walk, let alone the trot. God help me if I got to the canner. But it was, it's such a good exercise just to walk. On one 20 year circle consistently. 702 times in a row.
Just can I [01:05:00] keep this circle? How do I keep this circle? They've gotta let me put their leg on. Okay. They're gonna jig a little bit. That's okay. We come back to the walk I, I have no other expectations and we're just gonna stay on the circle for the day. Yeah. Because I have made the parameters and I've made their whole world just the circle.
And the arena gets big and I, I've never had a ring that had four walls on it since I've been in Aiken. Yeah. So the one time I had just a polo field, so you have to put your own parameters down. And so for me it's sometimes it's, even if it's just around a jump standard, right?
Yeah. At least I give myself a point and they're falling in a little here, just start to incorporate my inside Lego, they're falling out a little bit. You start to just teach them what those leg aids mean. On this like one topic, right? Yeah. You set the circle and you make that their whole world for a bit.
And you trot no faster than you could sit. And if you can't do that, then you just walk some more. Yeah. And I think it's, it was, it's a hugely [01:06:00] useful exercise because you don't get ahead of yourself. You're not caring about the leads, you don't care about whether they're spooking in that corner.
It doesn't matter if they're speaking, you go, you stay on that circle. Yeah. That circle's God. I bet a lot of upper level, like top level riders would like that could. Show a lot of holes, sure. It was, I, again, the clinic I did with Eric was like only riders who had ridden that preliminary and above.
And I think all, but I think three people jumped that day. So he was like, you will learn how to canner on a fucking circle, but we'll do no more. And I learned to camera and so it's always an exercise I go back to with any of my horses, it's like when like kind of the wheels are coming off the bus, let's go back to our circle.
And let's you, because again, same thing in like a show. 'cause you can go to a show and put yourself on a 20 meter circle and that horse goes Ah, yes. 20 meter circle. Yeah. Carve out a little space in the warmup. Yeah. Yeah. And it just it's so easy to get lost in the warmup and doing 800 new things that you've never done at [01:07:00] home and that you'd never do again, but warm up and you're doing your pre ride.
And you make up these things because you see somebody else doing them. And it's, if I can just go back to being like, okay. Yes, he is, a little excited and he is a little up, but we're going back to the circle, we're going back to the walk. I'm not trotting any faster than I can sit.
And I've done that and been like, okay like this is not progressed past me being able to do the tiniest idio, sidious sitting trot with any version of relaxation. I skipped a test. Sure. Because that's not what mattered. That's not why I went there. Yeah. And I think a lot of times we get, especially when I'm very lucky to have the privilege to say that I can do that because I'm an Aiken, right?
Yeah. Like where I have 900 shows. Sure. On a two week basis, I can just be like, I do not need to go into the stress slash test. I can do that in two weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Without, but I think it's important to take the expectation away that if things go awry, that you have to still go in the arena and just make it happen.
That's so unhelpful. [01:08:00] For a nervous, anxious, worried sort of horse. Yeah. Or a worried, anxious sort of rider that didn't Yeah, same. That, that the horse is behaving but isn't quite ready to put, put the pressure on themselves or let the horse down. And we were talking about this in one of our Patreon episodes where you gotta be okay with not getting your money's worth or walking away from , a big name rider or just making a decision in the moment and saying, you know what, I did what I wanted to do for today and I think we're gonna come up better next time.
Yeah. I like, I think there's something to be said, especially with the thoroughbreds. You're never ever gonna tire a thoroughbred out. So this is there, let that go to Jesus. You're never gonna do that, so you're not gonna they're I gonna write 'em down. No, they're not something I'm be like, you're right.
You've been on me for an hour and a half now I'm tired. No. This never happened in my life. You have to be like, sometimes, like I had 10 minutes of really good work and that is, I, you recognize you're not gonna make [01:09:00] anything today better. And just that 10 minutes was really great.
And gosh, is that kind exciting, like the next day when you bring them out and they're like, let me show you this really cool thing I learned yesterday. Yes. Because you didn't double down and try and teach them a third new thing. Yeah, no I, I will say that like working for Emily and having her teach me for, many years, really taught the importance of knowing when to just say, that's plenty for today.
Don't get greedy. Don't get greedy. Because I think the thing is that like the horse will feel really let down. I know that's anthropomorphizing them a little bit, but I think the horse will feel let down and get sour to work. And, but when you can get them feeling oh my God, you just nailed that trot to walk transition.
You're done for the day, loosen the girls. Done. We're, that's it. I have one that same amateur and her horse, we're learning to jump and everything, but it has been, he is the most literal horse and it's been such a great [01:10:00] reminder to myself because like literally he does, the grid, right?
We walk, we tell him he's the best horse that's ever existed and then we start again. And then he is look, guys, look, I did the grit again. Yeah. And you're like, you're so good at this. Yeah. You make him feel amazing, then he's done. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. It doesn't have to be a 45 minute lesson
we put these time constraints in these oh, I'm, I have to ride for 45 minutes so he's fit because I can't ride tomorrow and the third Sunday of next month, I'm gonna have to go to these horses are so much more fit than we naturally, than we give them credit for.
And if you don't walk him in a stall 24 hours a day, then all the more so that they have this baseline of fitness you're not gonna, Yeah. Kill 'em by quitting on a 10 minute very good ride. Exactly. Exactly. And especially if there are bred, I think once they've got that base level of fitness as a young horse, it's always easier and they're always just naturally more fit than a horse that doesn't have that base on them.
Agreed. Absolutely. All right, we're, now we're getting into the juicy stuff, [01:11:00] so we're gonna make this probably a two part episode, so we're gonna have to tease that, we get into the good stuff in the second part.
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