S3 E3: Why OTTBs Belong in the Hunter Ring with Madison Barnett & Caden Nolt

[00:00:00] So the way that this whole thing goes is that we're just like having a conversation. Like I have a bunch of questions to ask you guys. If you say something and you're like, Hey, I don't want that in here, or you feel like you make a mistake, just be like, Hey, cut that. Whatever. I get rid of all of the pauses and the ums and the like, and the, you knows.
So it makes everybody sound a lot more coherent. So yeah we'll go with that. How's that sound? And normally I send an outline, but I wanted this to be a little bit more off the cuff for you guys.
Yeah. No, it's okay. You can be r rated if you need to be. All right. So I'm, I, there's, it's gonna start with a real big hype point for both of you. Oh my God. Maddie, what are you doing? Oh, okay. Was that Caden? Did Caden just fall off the couch? What happened?
I can [00:01:00] still hear you. So that's all that really matters.
Alright. Are you guys ready?
All right. Hi everyone, and welcome back to OTTB on tap. I'm Nev and I'm flying solo this week. Today we're sitting down with Madison Barnett, a versatile hunter jumper and event rider based in Pennsylvania and the professional behind MB equine. Madison is an active USEA competitor whose campaign thoroughbreds at recognized horse trials across Mid-Atlantic, including Fairhill, Morgan Park, Seneca Valley, and Maryland International.
Gaining experience through the training level, whether horses like surprise twist. Alongside of venting, she's built a strong hunter jumper resume with top finishes at the Thoroughbred makeover aboard horses like coming back in 2025. Madison and coming back made headlines after winning the USEF Rude and Riddle Thoroughbred and [00:02:00] Sport Award, beating out a nation of warm bloods and making a very loud case for the thoroughbred as a top.
Tier sport horse coming back was bred by P-T-K-L-L-C and transitioned to sport with support from Pastured Place, highlighting just how powerful the aftercare to sport pipeline can be. We're also joined by one of Madison's standout riders, Caden Nolt, A driven and well-rounded junior competitor, partnered with his thoroughbred gelding Golem.
Caden has an earned championships and top placings in the hunter ring at venues like the Triangle Show Series and World Equestrian Center, and was recently named the USEF Thoroughbred Horse of the Year. But his experience goes well beyond the hunters. He's built a solid foundation and eventing, including riding with William Fox Pitt and that cross discipline background shows in the way he rides, known for his infectious sense of humor and a work ethic well beyond his years.
Caden represents the next generation of riders proving just how far OTBs can [00:03:00] go. Thank you so much for both being here today.
Caden, are you okay?
And Madison is joining us from inside her truck because she's probably going from a barn to another barn to ride 6,000 horses. Oh my God, your network is pretty rough also.
So this is our first real hunter jumper focused episode, and I can't think of a better way to do it with two people who are very publicly flying the thoroughbred flag. Very high. Before we even get into the results and the awards and everything like that, Madison, can you just tell us a little bit about how Thoroughbreds became your thing?
Yeah, I grew up on thoroughbreds. That was my whole [00:04:00] life. I had a little thoroughbred in my backyard as a kid. And got stuck, right? Like I fell in love. It's been everything I've ever known. And I don't know that there's anything I'd rather sit on. Since day one. I decided there was nothing I'd rather do. I wrote their reads for everybody, all of my teenage years. And then. Once they started riding professionally, it just kept on. They're definitely the underdog, but we that part of the challenge.
It's so underrated because I got a lot of horses that won't go forward, and the thoroughbreds have always been the first ones to try for me.
Was there a moment in your like writing that you decided oh, I'm really good at this off the track thoroughbred thing? Or did it [00:05:00] just slowly take over your program?
I decided pretty early on. I really liked like the forward, and I really liked the fact that they were so willing and would always try for me. We joked all the time that I would fall in love with anything that would go when I kicked it and stuff when I pulled on it. And honestly the Thoroughbreds have fit that to a T.
It's so underrated because I got a lot of horses that won't go forward, and the thoroughbreds have always been the first ones to try for me.
Yeah. Yeah, and I feel like once they figure out the forward, it's like everything else is like just icing on the cake at that stage.
Yeah. And they're wonderful. We love [00:06:00] [00:07:00] them.
Caden, same question for you. Did you start like riding thoroughbreds or did you, how did you get into the work Thoroughbreds? I started on a pony that we did all the little pony hunter stuff with at local shows. I took get to one of the brass springs at Devon and there was fun on that.
And then when I outgrew that, I got leased, like this stir Red Cross thing, and then that one got sold. So then. The people, the barn I at was, look, were looking for horses for me, and they found Gio and they told me he would be a really good fit for me. And then I went and tried him and fell in love with him.
And then that's how I got into the thoroughbreds. What was it specifically about him that stood out to you? I thought when I first saw him, I wasn't like, I knew going into it that he only had one [00:08:00] eye and I wasn't sure how I was going to feel about that, but then I got on. It felt great.
Felt like a normal horse. Couldn't barely tell. He only had one eye and going to a jump. He was just going straight to them. Didn't think twice about them would jump anything I point him at. Yeah, I love that. Madison, back to you. What was your first experience retraining a thoroughbred, like straight off the track.
And what did it teach you?
Oh, my first off the track is he is still in my backyard. His name's Milo. And I tell you, I learned so much. I took him my first ever event on him, and I think I fell off in all three phases. [00:09:00] He jumped out the dress room. He dumped me in stadium and he dumped me again, cross country. And that is when I knew this was the sport and the breed for me.
That's when I knew that was what sealed it. No, I mean it was, I learned so much. And I think that Thoroughbreds really enforced the horsemanship side of things because they are athletes from the day they're born. Especially the off the track para breds, right? They're handled professionally and they're, they're just, they're born to, to be athletic from day one.
So I think, it increases our standard of care a little bit to think about the whole horse. And I think that's the biggest lesson I learned from that horse. He'd do anything for me, but I did anything for him. And I think that's the important part of the thoroughbreds, is you get what you put into it.
Yeah. And come. You spoke to [00:10:00] this point a minute ago about the forward, but what do you think OTBs ask of a rider or a trainer that warm bloods maybe don't?
think a few things. I think there [00:11:00] is the pipeline of the off the track thoroughbreds is a little different than the warm bloods in the sense that our off the track thoroughbreds at two years old are. Are further along than a lot of warm bloods at five. In different ways, but in different ways, right?
So we get these horses off the track and they have their jobs down. They stand to be bathed, they stand to be clipped, they load on the trailer. So the rest of that, that leaves us to us as riders. Like we have things we need to take care of. Are we thinking about their whole body?
And I think too, like they are not. They get told, they're like so green, and these horses, they have their jobs sorted out. So the same way that we expect those horses to be professionals off the track, I think those horses expect us to be professionals. And not that they're not forgiving, but I, yeah.
But I do think they, they force us as riders to look at the full picture. As compared to a lot of these warm bloods, I feel like. Have that professional experience and that professional outlook before they come to us as amateur and [00:12:00] junior rider of mounts. So I think that just the compare and the contrast of where they are based on like their age and their riding journey.
I think the thoroughbreds demand a lot more of that. Like full horsemanship look on things a little bit earlier on. And I think they all have different backgrounds too, right? Like the warm bloods are. Same way. A lot of these warmbloods come from Europe. A lot of our off the track thoroughbreds are coming from different tracks.
So some of those things I think are a big factor too.
I've never heard anybody really put it that way. And I think that's a great way to, you think about what, think about what they're bringing to the table already and their expectations of what they want out of the next person that's gonna be sitting on their back and they're like, no, you can't just, you can't just phone it in, [00:13:00] no.
No, they don't work that way. Like it's not one 800 Dial a Ride. And not that they aren't forgiving and they aren't awesome, but if you want a forgiving horse, I do think there's an expectation on the rider to be forgiving as well. And I do think that there are a red horse that, and I think they know that again, the way that they're handled and they expected to act as athletes from yearlings to two year olds.
I think that's a little bit, I think their brains tick faster than the warm blood. So I think we gotta think a little bit faster than we can ride sometimes with those therapies.
Yeah. [00:14:00] Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like most people that fall in love with Thoroughbreds, if they ever go back to Warmbloods, they're like, where's the on switch? How do I turn it on? What do I, how do I get it to not have that delayed response? To me, I'm a photographer, right? So it reminds me of when you're shooting film versus analog versus like digital and.
You're like, there's the delayed response and it's so disappointing.
I don't know. I experienced that a little bit with my warm blood babies, is the difference between the [00:15:00] two.
So switching into a more specific horse world we're gonna talk about coming back Sealy as he is known in the barn, and Caden with your horse geo lemon, what do you call him in the barn? Geo? Yeah, just geo. And I'm gonna post the the EQU base information about both of these horses and their pedigrees.
They both have beautiful pedigrees. But for you, Madison, what does working with horses like coming back shape the way you build horses now? He's such a standout [00:16:00] dude.
It sets the bar a little higher, right? He is one of those horses that every time you put a leg across his back, that bar gets higher. And he is been, I shouldn't say he's easy 'cause I don't think any good horse is easy, but he has been such a partner that there there's gonna be really hard to find another one of them.
That horse has done everything I've asked of him.
Yeah. Truly. I feel like from the RRP to what he is been doing now, every time I've seen him in person, he's just the consummate professional.
He is such a professional. He is ready to horse show. He'll walk in the ring for you anytime with anybody on his back. He jumps the jump no matter what. It can be [00:17:00] pouring, it can be snowing, the wind can be blowing. The horse just does his job right and it's hard to find a horse that you feel like gets it.
And I do think that he gets it and he understands the expectation and the pressure that's on him. And I, it's hard, it is hard to find a horse and it's hard to compare him to a horse that has as much try as he does.
He's always ready to go. And you know what I will say is that Horace. I have very few horses that are never ever misbehaving, ever. He never puts a foot wrong. He never acts out. He never is [00:18:00] frustrated or fresh. He never gets a lunch before he horse shows. Like he is just ready to go. And that is hard to not take for granted because they're not all that way.
Yeah.
We have had some really tough ones. That is for [00:19:00] sure.
Yeah.
Yeah, he reminds me of when I braid my horse up for a horse show, he like knows he's at a horse show and he looks around and assesses the competition and he is okay. So for some reason when I've seen Celia in person, it's like he's all braided up and he is I know I'm here to clean up and these glasses come on.
Yeah,
it's just unbelievable.
But do. [00:20:00] I was gonna say, you know what? I feel like in the world of what I've known you and the horses that you've had to ride to get to this point, you deserve a Sealy 10 times over. You deserve more than one of those horses in your barn because you've paid your due tenfold already. Yeah, and I feel like that's the way it works, right?
You do pay your dues with thoroughbreds where you might get a quirky one or a hot one or whatever, but for all of those, you might have that one that you know, you can swing a leg over and just go for a nice ride and not have to worry about much. And that's also really nice.
It keeps you going for sure.
Caden, back to you. I'm also gonna post geo lemmons EQU base and pedigree information. He has exceptional breeding and I think when I first met you and met. You're a horse. I immediately looked him up. I was like, this horse is too much. He's so good. He's so lovely. And I not only photographed you at the Fairhill Thoroughbred Show, but I also photographed you at the William Fox Pitt Clinic.
[00:21:00] So I got to see him dibble, dabble in different, sports. But when you met him and started riding a thoroughbred, what was the most surprising thing for you as a junior? How willing he was to go and do just about anything.
Yeah. Had you come off riding a lot of warm bloods or, and you said you were riding a pony at the time? I came off of riding like ponies and stuff. Yeah. But you're quite tall now? No. Yeah, I am like just about six feet tall, so that makes it hard to ride a smaller thoroughbred, but we make do, yeah.
And how tall is he? He's 15 three and maybe a half I think is what he is measured as what I consider. Perfect size. And so to follow up that, do you feel like riding off the track thoroughbreds has made you a better rider overall? I do, I think it makes you like have to think a lot faster than you do on most other things, like the ponies [00:22:00] and stuff.
They are more unpredictable, I think, than most others. And it's more of a challenging ride, I would say. Almost. Yeah. But I do think it helps me ride other horses. Yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned that when you went to, when you went to try Geo Lemon, that he. Already was missing an eye. He had an eye inated.
Do you know the story behind that? Did he race with one eye? Because I know a lot of horses too. He was kicked in the head as a yearling, I think it was. And went blind in the eye then, so they just decided to take it out. They actually kept it in and raised him with him blind in the eye.
Okay. And then he went to Abby Fisher and Abby Fisher took the eye out and then I, she took it out 'cause I think it was getting infected. Yeah. So then didn't get any more infected and he's just been without it ever since. Yeah. We've had a couple of other people on the show talking about riding horses [00:23:00] at a pretty high level with one eye.
Has it shaped anything specifically that you do with him or how you train him or approach what you're doing with him? The main thing that I have to remember is that I can't take any sharp left turns. Yeah. Yeah. That's going to a jump, so you just gotta take those left turns a little wider, but other than that, he is pretty normal.
Yeah. Have you found there to be any, sort of bias or scrutiny from either your competitors or the judges. 'cause I know the hunter world is quite particular about things that are meant to be like, okay, this is not an unsound ness, it's just a genetic thing, or it's just a physical thing.
So I have been told, like I just came out of a hunter derby round one time and it was a beautiful round and someone told Maddie that I should not have been allowed to do it and I should be disqualified 'cause he had one eye. What does that mean? What do you mean? What, how does that make sense?
I have no [00:24:00] idea.
So there was a rule previously that a horse with one eye was considered an un soundness. Yousef has since changed the rule, I think in like it was like 10 years ago that they changed the rule that it's no longer classified as non soundness. I do think there is some bias with some of the judges that have been around since the rule has changed.
That maybe they still view it as an un [00:25:00] soundness.
Which is so silly.
Yeah.
Yeah, because here's the thing and having seen this horse go in front of me a lot, and it has somebody who has a very sharp eye for quote unquote un soundness. There is nothing about the way that horse goes, carries himself, goes to the jumps, does anything that like, whatever, even draw your eye to him to even look for anything.
And so to me it feels very criminal that's even a consideration where it's right off the bat, that's negative three points, I hate that. I hate that. It's and I know there's a bias against or a thing with roaring, right? Which it's really not, doesn't affect [00:26:00] the horse.
Emily had a horse that she competed up through advance that roared like a freight train, but yeah, that sucks. It's come on guys. Yeah. Okay, caden, you've done Hunters eventing and you rode with William Fox Pitt. What do you think of venting has done for you as a hunter rider?
I think it is like benefits to the hunter derby and stuff where the jumps are a little bigger. Phil and those scarier Phil? Because the jumps out in the cross country field, those things don't move. You might come across a big log. I've had hunter derby already where there's a log in the ring.
Yeah. And I think it just helps make you more game to the derby fences and helps me in the handier rounds to be a little tighter. Yeah, and I think there's a shifting trend that I as a very I don't know really anything about hunters, but I think there's a real shifting trend to horses that are moving a little bit more forward, a little bit more fluid, and taking their riders to the jumps.
Would you say that's correct? I would say they've been [00:27:00] rewarding some more forward horses now instead of the slow Yeah. Big jump. Yeah. Yeah. And Maddie, how do you feel like the cross training in your program has helped your horses?
I think it's definitely made them braver. I think as a rider and like developing the young horses through both things, I found. Some pretty big perks to the conditioning aspect of the eventing. I think a lot of our hunters benefit, like it's not uncommon for Kayden and I to go gallop our hunters the week before we go away for a little bit to show.
So that's been a big asset. Conditioning on the grass has been a big asset. I also find. Like we both ride our hunters with event trainers to jump school during the week. And we have found some pretty big success with that, just in, in the exercises that are given and the expectation of the horse.
And I feel like the cross training has helped keep their brains active. It's [00:28:00] a super easy for our hunters to get bored going outside line, diagonal line. So I think the cross training has really helped. K kept their brains moving. Which again, I do think the third reds appreciate. I think it not feeling monotonous to them every day.
It has been a big asset to the program.
Yes. Yeah.
Yes. I remember I was riding with a trainer in South Jersey and one of the best pieces of advice she ever gave me with this big athletic horse I had was if every week you wanna [00:29:00] dressage school, flat hack, whatever, she's whatever you don't do those things on the same day.
Every week. She's you can do the same, those activities every week, but just never do them on the same day. She's because Thoroughbreds don't like that. They like knowing 'cause they, they always want that little endorphin hit right.. So what's something that you think that people assume about Thoroughbreds that you've proven totally wrong? I think they assume that they're all super hot horses.
Can't do the hunters. Yeah. And they're just gonna be a wild ball of fire. But mine is actually quite the opposite. He likes to go fast, but he also likes the slow pace to the jumps. Yeah. Doesn't. He's not usually that wild. Maybe on a cold day, like this weekend. But yeah, he's been pretty great.
Yeah. Are you back, Madison? Hello? Why can't you hear us? I don't know what's going on.
Oh my God. Madison, [00:30:00] you gotta pull over in a place with good wifi is what you gotta do. She probably has a load of horses. That's true. Oh my God. I don't know why. Hold on a minute.
I'm gonna kill her.
Yeah. She needs wifi.
It's not like I didn't tell her. You need to be in a quiet place for an hour with a good wifi connection. These were established parameters before we started this. It wouldn't be the first time someone's done it from the car though, for sure. Let's see, is she gonna leave? Is she gonna come back?
I don't know. All right. I'm gonna continue to ask you questions, Caden. Okay. You and Geo [00:31:00] Lemon got named USEF Thoroughbred Horse of the Year. What was that like? It was unexpected. I was not expecting to get that. I felt great getting that as a junior rider.
'cause you don't see many juniors out on thoroughbreds. Yeah. Or even really amateurs. It's usually just the professionals who are in the division. All year I've been showing against them. It's been a little harder because they're have more years in the show ring than I do. Yeah. But it just felt really great to do that against all those professionals.
Yeah. In the world that you're in, I think that sets this huge precedent of listen, we can get it done on a thoroughbred. This is so cool. Yeah. And I'm sure there's something really satisfying about winning a above, a sea of warm bloods where it's yeah, listen, I feel like the conversation has always been you need this big, soft moving, slow moving, warm blood to be able to have, get these high awards.
And it's just really cool to see a [00:32:00] thoroughbred do it. Not to mention a thoroughbred with one eye, which like, who cares? But also, yeah. You're like, look, I did it. That's really cool. Was your mom super excited? She was, yeah. Oh, that's really sweet. Okay so Madison asking you a similar question. It was a huge year for you with coming back, Sealy and the USEF wrote and riddle thoroughbred and sport and champion three foot green hunters in zone two. What did that mean to [00:33:00] you?
It's definitely like my biggest accomplishment with him to date, right? So that was super exciting. I spent all year pretty actively campaigning against Warmbloods. The Green Hunter division was super competitive all year. It had its ties and lows, but to have a partner like that, that just keeps coming out and keeps fighting every weekend, no matter what happens.
It's super special and it's super special to know like that exists. I don't, he's the first horse I've had, stay in the program long enough to have two big years, so that was super exciting.
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Getting into your trainer, student dynamic, how long have you guys been working [00:34:00] together? I don't know, three years, four years.
Four years. I think. I four years. So Madison, what do you look for in a junior rider that you wanna invest your time in?
They've gotta be tough.
They've gotta be tough. My. Program has been one that's catered to the tough kids a little bit more so than anyone else [00:35:00] because we have so many thorough Brits. They really have to want it. They really have to want all parts of it, not just showing up in horse showing. It also means a lot to me when I have a kid and a horse and a parent that believes in the whole picture as much as the Knut family has.
So that's definitely something that's advantageous to me as a trainer is, it's great that you have a kid that can fight for it, but can you put all the pieces together,
Yeah.
Yeah, we talk a lot about, that was like the moral of our story this weekend, right? Like we were horses. And it was like five degrees out and I was like, y'all gotta find a way. It doesn't have to be the way you thought it was gonna be, but you are gonna have to find a way through. And that's a big part of what's made Caden as successful as he is been is there [00:36:00] is good days and there is bad days.
And I know that kid's gonna put a leg over the horse and he is gonna go find a way. Whether I have my heart in my stomach or not.
Yep.
Yeah. Yeah, that's a great point. And Caden, what's something that Madison has taught you that's stuck with you more than any ribbon? I'm trying to think of one. I more so just even on the bad days to just hold on and get through it. Yeah. There's not much that on those bad days that you can do. You just gotta hold on and get through that part and then a better day should come. Yeah. I, from my friendship with Madison, I've realized that there's something really special about the horse industry and that people show up and do things.
It's I know at least one of you is a swifty, but it reminds me of I can do it [00:37:00] with a broken heart kind of thing, where it's horse people are incredible because they'll show up and they'll perform, but they could have their entire world falling apart behind them and nobody would know because they know how to just show up and do it despite all of that.
And I think that's something that I always think of. With you, Madison specifically. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Where you're just willing the horse to just behave and just come on. Okay, so this is a question for both of you, but what's the funniest or most chaotic OTTB moment you've had together? I feel barmaid is gonna come up in this conversation. [00:38:00] Sh
Barmaid might come up. The Fair Health or Red Show's gonna go down as one of the funniest ones, but there's gotta be a couple.
yeah. I just remember you coming into the ring on Barmaid and being like, don't buck me off, like throughout the entire ride.
Yeah, barmaid is one of a kind, one of a kind. I, my favorite off the Track Thoroughbred moment has gotta be the time that I thought it'd be fun to take 19 thoroughbreds to the Fairhill Thoroughbred Show. And I was so sick. I had the flu that weekend and I. I think I might have been on the ground as many times as I was on the horses.
They were just green as grass. They were being race horses.
yeah. I just remember you coming into the ring on Barmaid and being like, don't buck me off, like throughout [00:39:00] the entire ride.
Yeah, that was terrible.
Yeah, I don't know that or another really funny off the track. Third bread moment we had was we went to, where did we go? Was it Cole Pepper? Caden.
I don't know. All we take is thoroughbred, so Yeah. I mean Cole Pecker when you went in the derby against all those warm bloods and you come out the ring and everybody's trying to, . It's always ironic when you come outta the ring and everybody's giving you a hard time and then the scores go up.
So those are always funny moments for us, but I think. Yeah, I think the Fair Hill thorough Red Show goes down is a good one. Another really memorable one we had this year was [00:40:00] Kayden did the Glen Air Derby with GIO in the Dark and outside in the dark. And we're sitting there and we're sitting there and I'm talking to him and I'm like, are you sure you wanna do this?
And he's yeah. And I was like, are you sure this horse is gonna jump this in the dark?
I know and Caden told me, he said, I think I can do it. And he went in there and put down, what did you put down? An [00:41:00] 86?
If you are saying, are you sure you wanna do it, Maddie? That's really bad. That's bad.
Oh my god. I don't know that much about hunters, but I know that's a really good score. That is incredible. So to piggyback on this, Caden, you're as far as I know, just, known for being funny and really hardworking and where do you think all of that work ethic and [00:42:00] just sense of humor comes from with you?
Oh, I don't even know. I think probably from the sense of humor definitely comes from my dad. He is one of the funniest people I know and I think the hard work probably comes from my mom. She has done. A lot to make sure that I can go to all the shows I do. She always makes sure they're paid for before schedule. She's never late on anything and she would just work really hard to get this done for me.
Yeah, she's like a huge supporter. I know. And Madison has his work ethic ever surprised you or are you just gosh, this is amazing to have this kid in my barn.
He is amazing. I don't know that it's surprised me as much as there's times that it's taken for granted because I feel like. I've never felt surprised for it, [00:43:00] but I've always been, when he is not there, I definitely struggle. Caden's so humble about how hard he works to help everyone pull things off that you don't, you almost don't even realize.
Yeah.
And until he is not there, which I think is something that really speaks to his character and I think it's something that'll help take him really far. I also think. That some of the hard work that's been instilled in Caden has been because he's had to and I think Geo has helped teach him that, but I also think the way that he has gone above and beyond with every horse he's had besides Geo, has also helped teach him that
yeah. Yeah. Where do you guys both see thoroughbreds fitting into the Hunter Jumper world going [00:44:00] forward?
well. We're excited for the Upperville Derby this year. We think that's gonna be a big turning point for kind of the thoroughbreds in the Hunter world. I would be really curious to see some thoroughbreds do some three six hunters. I think that's been a missing spot for thoroughbreds for a long time.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I would really like to see that kind of have a comeback. I do think as far as thoroughbreds in the hunter world, I think it's starting to be more accepted. I think we live in a really awesome area with a lot of really awesome thoroughbred people that are all working towards the same goal. So I'm excited to see that end of it.
Yeah. Yeah.
The jumpers. I'm not sure, I'm not super involved in the jumper side of things. I'd like [00:45:00] to be more involved, but I see a similar trend with, the take two finals and the TIP championships, and I think those two things have really helped promote us a little bit as well..
Yeah.
Yeah. What do you think needs to change for off the track thoroughbreds to be taken even more seriously? I know a lot of people talk about we need more thoroughbred specific classes, or more thoroughbred specific shows and things like that, but what do you, what would you love to see [00:46:00] happen?
I think people just need to get out there and do it. I think that's been a big misconception that Caden and I have worked really hard on is, people will go showing the Thoroughbred Hunter division at the horse show and that's great. It's a great division for the horses, but they won't go in the performances, put them in there.
But they won't go in the regular division. Yeah.
At the end of the day, those results aren't gonna start changing until we force them to change. Your thoroughbred's not gonna beat the Warmbloods until your thoroughbred deserves to beat the warm bloods, and he's not gonna deserve to beat the warm bloods if he doesn't show against the warm bloods.
That's a great point.
So I think people just need to go out and do it and carefully do it. I don't think anybody needs to be reckless, but I think that's been like a big thing for us. Coming back and geo this year, like Geo did the division, but he also did the [00:47:00] performance hunters and he also did the junior hunters and we just put 'em in there.
Yeah.
And I know you guys walk into the ring like, we belong here. You're not walking in there being like, our horses aren't prepared. This isn't suitable. I know that you guys do so much to make sure that like they are of equal quality to anybody else that's entered.
And so I think that's the other important thing, right? Is walk in there like you deserve a seat at the table, right?
Yeah.
Yeah. It does have to be good enough. That's the other thing is like we talk about how people have their thoroughbreds in the thoroughbred division. But I do think, and I don't disagree that it's judged a little bit differently. It's supposed to reward a promote the thoroughbred breed, right?
So what you're looking for in a thoroughbred is sometimes different than [00:48:00] what you're looking for in a three six green hunter. Again, though, we aren't gonna see those results change and the judging to help reward the thoroughbreds until we find the thoroughbreds to do it, and we start putting them in there and letting them have a crack at it.
Yep yep. And let them dominate a little bit. Yeah. Caden, what are your goals coming up with Geo Lemmon for next season and what are your goals with your new up and coming OTTB? Tell me something. I would, for geo, I would really like to do junior hundred finals and get a ribbon. That is my goal.
I want to go there, get a ribbon. They placed the 20 last year I went, I was 27th. Missed it just by a little, which was a bummer, but I would like to do that [00:49:00] again. And then for tell me something I would like. To do him in the greens and ideally I would like to do green and semifinals, but I'm not Yeah, sure.
Do that. He seems like he will do as well. Have you been enjoying bringing him along? Yeah. Yeah. He is been a lot of fun. He is, yeah. A completely different ride from Geo. He's got the big, long, slow step on like geo. Who's got the short speedier step, but that's been a little challenging going back and forth between the two of 'em when I show 'em at the same time.
But yeah I'll make it work.
How did you find tell me something. He came from the same place that Okay. So through PK coming back did no. Once through PC K owner. That's cool. Yeah. That's awesome. So I've been leasing him and I'm pretty sure I'm gonna continue to lease him throughout the year. Let see what next year. I'm gonna ask you while she's gone, I'm gonna ask you, I have some rapid fire questions. [00:50:00] Oh Lord. Okay. What's your funniest trait about geo? Ooh. His funniest trait is probably. I would almost say his personality. He like if you're wearing I'll be in a horse show standing there with my hat on and he'll just turn at me and grab my hat and take it off.
And then, okay. That's probably his, one of his funniest okay. Warmup hype song. Oh. One of the ones, me and Maddie mostly play on the way to horse shows is sticky. Not very appropriate, but, okay. One word to describe an OTTB.
I would probably say
indifferent, different. I like it. One thing, OTBs are unfairly judged for. [00:51:00] Oh. Unfairly judged for their personalities, I feel like. 'cause most of the time people judge them saying just by the look of 'em, that they're gonna be wild and not geo's. Favorite snack, dick. Really call Vinegar Champ. Oh, that's so funny.
Yep. Your dream show venue.
I would love to go to Wafa. Okay. In Wellington, who's more dramatic? O tbs are Warmbloods.
I would probably have to say ott dbs. If Gia was an actor, who would they be? Oh, I'd say he's probably kind like Adam Sandler. Any pre-competition superstitions or rituals for you?
I have my lucky Derby box that Home for Love. Okay. 17 hand chestnut mirror or 15 hand bay Elding,[00:52:00]
probably big ing. Okay, in the next few months, we're gonna be featuring a special guest co-host on the show, Stephanie Ott, who you'll remember from our RRP collaborations last year. She's gonna be sitting down with me in the next few weeks to interview a former jockey Outrider.
I reached out to her for a few questions for this episode, so she's got two questions for you guys. What's the biggest thing you look for in choosing a prospect for hunters? With OTBs?
Personally I look for a horse that's pretty unflappable. That's step one. And then step two for me is I prefer smaller horse. So anything like under 16, two hands with a short neck and a short [00:53:00] back just 'cause that's my favorite type to ride. Other than that, I'm not too picky.
Yeah. And then what training advice do you guys have for starting. A horse, an OTTB over fences and confirming lead changes.
They have lead changes, right? Like we all know that they're taught lead [00:54:00] changes, but
Yeah, so we don't school the lead change mostly because they do have the lead change. My biggest advice to my kids with my thoroughbreds is to not school the lead change. If we need to confirm a change, we do that a lot with a poll on the diagonal or a simple change that's our go-to.
And as far as the jumping goes I'm big on accountability. I'm big on any answers better than no answer. Like my young horses, I don't want them to get to the base of that jump and ask me if they should jump. I want them to find a way across. So that's my big thing is, I'm not looking for.
The perfect distance, the perfect stride, the perfect rhythm, the best behavior. I'm looking for a path from the base of that fence to the other side. And I think the young horses catch onto it pretty quickly too, that [00:55:00] way.
Yeah. The willingness. Yeah. I always love how horses will learn from their mistake, their mistakes, and so if they come around and they kind of clobber through a jump, I love to see what they do next.
Okay, so a couple of closeout questions for you guys. If somebody's listening and they're on the fence about a thoroughbred for the hunters, what would you tell them?
Go for it, but you gotta give it a year. That's what I tell everybody. You gotta give it a year.
And their whole body changes in a [00:56:00] year.
I mean I think it's a privilege for sure. I think it's
something special to be a part of a horse that has been there and done that and knows. What it means to have a job. But I also think it's fun to watch their personalities change and watch them come outta their shell in their second career because it is so different than their first time [00:57:00] around.
I like that advice Madison. I think that's really smart. 'cause I think a lot can happen in a year, both with their feet, their confirmation, their build, . Okay. And where can people follow along with you guys and your horses? Do you have websites, social media? Give us your handles. We'll put 'em in the show notes.
I have a Facebook and an Instagram both under my name. I don't have anything for the business yet but that's probably the best way to find me is Instagram or [00:58:00] Facebook.
Get with it Madison.
Okay. Awesome. You guys, I'm sorry this was such a bumpy ride. It's not usually this bad, but I actually think my computer is completely overheating and I don't know what's happening. It might be because it's 10,000 degrees in this guest room, and I hate it. Could have been that. I'm really hoping that we got all the answers that we needed to, but I'm so happy that you guys came and joined me today.
I know you guys are both so busy and I really appreciate you sitting down and taking an hour of your, outta your day to, to do this. You closed a huge gap in our podcast library. Everyone's been begging for hunter writers to be on. And thank you [00:59:00] listeners for tuning into another episode of OTTB on tap.
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